Catholic Online Forum

What I understand is that some people are suggesting Card. Mahoney should not vote in the conclave, yes?

What I don't understand is whether he has the right to abstain from going in the first place. Don't all cardinals have to go to the Vatican in time for the conclave? Can they choose to not go? Especially in the age of air travel. Two hundred years ago, did only some of them attend?

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Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

I didn't say he does. I meant statistically, not civicly.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

In the book The Cardinal which was the basis of the movie, the Pope dies. The Cardinal tells his young assistant priest who is the main character of the book, "Hurry we have to get to Rome."
They cross the Atlantic by ship, but it's too late. A new Pope has already been elected.

Years later, another Pope dies, but this time jet planes are available and the Cardinal makes it to the conclave.


Must have been far worse two hundred years ago. No wonder only Italians were elected Pope.

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Norman
...that is the regret of a lot of old people when they look back and realize too late what might have been.
This was what President Martin regretted. He thought he was doing something good. It was a disaster. How can anybody know what is the right thing to do?
-- Theresa

So what, besides age, would disqualify a cardinal from voting?

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David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

What about scandal, or having ones priestly faculties suspended?

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Andrew McAllister

Respect for the dignity of every innocent human being from conception/fertilization, without exception, without compromise, without apology.

Only a Pope could do that.

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Dean
Most people's sense of history goes back to breakfast time - Benjamin Netanyahu

Yes, I guess they had an advantage there.


Looks like they can decide not to go based on poor health.
The 78-year-old Archbishop Emeritus of Indonesia has said that he will not take part in the conclave due to poor health, and two others are deciding.

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Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

The only thing in the entire world that can stop Mahoney from voting is the direct order of the Pope given before the 28th. That is not going to happen.

People should stop already with this Mahoney business. Every cardinal in walking into that conclave could publicly confess something which makes them unworthy to elect the Successor of St. Peter. The people telling him not to vote are acting as if membership in the College of Cardinals is based on Christian perfection. It is not. And it is not revoked by virtue of sin or even scandal.

For if we really wish to push the issue, let's look and see if every priest and bishop ordained by these cardinals has always worked for the glory of God and the salvation of souls. As a matter of fact, each Cardinal has ordained men who turned out to be bad priests and caused damage to the Church, some even having abandoned the sacred ministry. Why not punish those Cardinals as well, for not being careful enough before ordaining bad priests and unleashing them upon the Church?

Because they went on the advice of the seminary and are not to blame? So what, punish them anyway for following bad advice. Being a cardinal is based on being a man, a sinner with pastoral experience, who is capable of advising the Pope on the governance of the Church. If we want to exclude all those men who allowed terrible things to happen under their watch, we would have a very tiny gathering of cardinals.

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Sincerely in Christ,
Fr. Angel

Excellent post, Father!

I am not particularly fond of the Cardinal, by any means (he was my bishop before he was Cardinal), but we are certainly all of us sinners.

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-Lou (Louis)

ORA et LABORA
Totus Tuus
Cacciatore/Fungaiolo

Or his own decision, of course.

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Jeff Stevens

Ha.
Haha.
Hahahaha.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

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Sincerely in Christ,
Fr. Angel

Fr. Angel's post about Cardinals, all clergy being mere mortals with all the associated foibles and flaws possessed by us all struck home. It's a wonder and a blessing that we have so many terrific priests and bishops considering the supply pool from which they come and it's also scary to me to think our priests are potentially no better than I in wisdom or human fallibility. When I've wandered in the past and been forcibly jerked back to reality I emerged better and wiser than before; based on my past I believe Cardinal Mahoney might be a uniquely qualified participant in the coming discussions and election process.

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BobA

Well said, Bob. I concur wholeheartedly!

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!"

I can assure you that based on that criteria, it sure wouldn't be me!

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In Christ,

Jim B

I will consider your position if stated with firm, well-thought-out, quiet reasoning. Hateful diatribe, ad hominem attacks and shouted rhetoric don't impress.

Or an accident, sickness, lightning, the "big one".

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David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

Well, since we were talking about what CAN stop him...not necessarily what WILL stop him.

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Jeff Stevens

(snerk)

More seriously, if he's capable of stopping himself, he's also capable of listening to the Holy Spirit and voting for the right person, right? I mean, I have no idea what goes on, really, other than the descriptions they give the public. What must it be like for a Cardinal? Just himself, the other Cardinals, and the Holy Spirit in there, with little to no interaction with the outside world?

Something to pray about, in the case of all 100 and something teen of them, that they be attentive to God's prompting, whatever the situation is at home.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

After the conclave has concluded will Cardinal Mahony return to the US?

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

Most likely, unless he's given other directions between now and next Thursday.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

Rose,

I was thinking of the precedent set by Cardinal Law.

Is Cardinal Mahony facing possible criminal charges?

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

Cardinal Law was called to Rome. He didn't just go there and not come back.

I haven't heard about possible criminal charges, but I'm on the other coast.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

I had written a somewhat lengthy post on Cardinal Law in reply to a question in some thread two or three weeks ago. It never saw the light of day, as I pushed "submit" after the Forum crashed that day.

The most relevant portions to the last few posts here is that from what I've heard and seen -

(a) Cardinal Law has been back in Massachusetts on occasion since he "went to Rome". I get the impression those have been quiet, inconspicuous and somewhat private occasions.

(b) I've been at some large public occasions of the Archdiocese at the Cathedral over the last few years - our Bicentennial Mass, and the episcopal ordinations of most of our current auxiliary bishops. To the best of my knowledge, he was not present or involved in those events.

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Rob

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)