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 Post subject: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 10:54 
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Was the Chris Dorner episode a case of the government assassinating a citizen without due process?

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 11:06 
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Perhaps, but I suspect we will never know. The LAPD does not have a very sterling reputation.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 11:23 
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There were many LE agencies involved besides the LAPD.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 11:30 
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David,

I am of the opinion that there is an unwritten policy among police agencies around the world in that if someone kills a police officer, he will never see trial and will be taken down at the first opportunity. And Dorner did kill an officer and knew his fate was sealed.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 11:35 
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ianJM wrote:
I am of the opinion that there is an unwritten policy among police agencies around the world in that if someone kills a police officer, he will never see trial and will be taken down at the first opportunity. And Dorner did kill an officer and knew his fate was sealed.

Allegedly.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 11:45 
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LASaxman wrote:
There were many LE agencies involved besides the LAPD.


True, but this was their mission and had their stamps all over it. They should have done everything in their power to bring him to justice, not pursue him to his death.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 11:53 
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com6063 wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
There were many LE agencies involved besides the LAPD.

True, but this was their mission and had their stamps all over it. They should have done everything in their power to bring him to justice, not pursue him to his death.

I'm not certain, but I think the main agency involved in the siege at the mountain cabin was the San Bernardino County Sheriff.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 12:06 
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LASaxman wrote:
com6063 wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
There were many LE agencies involved besides the LAPD.

True, but this was their mission and had their stamps all over it. They should have done everything in their power to bring him to justice, not pursue him to his death.

I'm not certain, but I think the main agency involved in the siege at the mountain cabin was the San Bernardino County Sheriff.


Dorner was a previous employee of the LAPD, where all the trouble started and then quickly escalated. Also, keep in mind that the department is reopening the investigation for a closer look at the circumstances surrounding his firing.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 13:47 
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One of the reported things about this case was that they were stopping all vehicle and forcibly searching each vehicle. without any warrants.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 13:50 
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ianJM wrote:
David,

I am of the opinion that there is an unwritten policy among police agencies around the world in that if someone kills a police officer, he will never see trial and will be taken down at the first opportunity. And Dorner did kill an officer and knew his fate was sealed.



I agree, in a county near where I live they killed a person who allegedly killed a cop. Over 100 rounds were fired in the final assault, when asked about that number the Sheriff said we ran out of ammo, you kill a cop in this county you will die.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 15:03 
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There were two instances of the police mistakenly firing at people before Dorner was caught. Two women delivering newspapers in a truck that was allegedly like Dorner's (not the same color and I'm not sure it was the same model) were both shot and a man had his truck rammed and then was shot at by police. This happened shortly after Dorner ran. The police obviously had hair finger triggers and were out for blood.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 15:10 
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BobC wrote:
ianJM wrote:
I am of the opinion that there is an unwritten policy among police agencies around the world in that if someone kills a police officer, he will never see trial and will be taken down at the first opportunity. And Dorner did kill an officer and knew his fate was sealed.

I agree, in a county near where I live they killed a person who allegedly killed a cop. Over 100 rounds were fired in the final assault, when asked about that number the Sheriff said we ran out of ammo, you kill a cop in this county you will die.

How does this differ from the Feds killing citizens with (or without) drones?

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 17:38 
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David,
An old adage use to be "He who has the gold makes the rules". Or "He who has the power makes the rules". Whether it is the Feds or Obama or the Sheriff in LA or Pittsburgh, (similar situation).

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 17:46 
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LASaxman wrote:
BobC wrote:
ianJM wrote:
I am of the opinion that there is an unwritten policy among police agencies around the world in that if someone kills a police officer, he will never see trial and will be taken down at the first opportunity. And Dorner did kill an officer and knew his fate was sealed.

I agree, in a county near where I live they killed a person who allegedly killed a cop. Over 100 rounds were fired in the final assault, when asked about that number the Sheriff said we ran out of ammo, you kill a cop in this county you will die.

How does this differ from the Feds killing citizens with (or without) drones?



Morally and legally it does not differ.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 20:25 
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BobC wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
How does this differ from the Feds killing citizens with (or without) drones?


Morally and legally it does not differ.

That would be my take as well.

I am reminded of Waco and Ruby Ridge, to name a couple.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2013 23:38 
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LASaxman wrote:
How does this differ from the Feds killing citizens with (or without) drones?


In my opinion, it differs in many ways though the end result may be the same ASSUMING the cops actually executed Dormer like the Executive admits he executes those on his kill list.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2013 00:37 
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dlm wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
How does this differ from the Feds killing citizens with (or without) drones?

In my opinion, it differs in many ways though the end result may be the same ASSUMING the cops actually executed Dormer like the Executive admits he executes those on his kill list.

At present they are saying he committed suicide. But who is going to dispute that?

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2013 07:28 
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BobC wrote:
One of the reported things about this case was that they were stopping all vehicle and forcibly searching each vehicle. without any warrants.

Much more of a threat to our liberty than the gun control initiatives. I would sue them so hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2013 11:01 
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Kardinal wrote:
BobC wrote:
One of the reported things about this case was that they were stopping all vehicle and forcibly searching each vehicle. without any warrants.

Much more of a threat to our liberty than the gun control initiatives. I would sue them so hard.


They do it all the time at DUI checkpoints claiming they smelled alcohol or pot and suspected an open container or stash. The point is, no matter what constitutional right we cede or to what extent, the "authorities" will continue to push the limits and that is why the gun grab legislation is so important to everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2013 11:50 
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bali wrote:
Kardinal wrote:
BobC wrote:
One of the reported things about this case was that they were stopping all vehicle and forcibly searching each vehicle. without any warrants.

Much more of a threat to our liberty than the gun control initiatives. I would sue them so hard.


They do it all the time at DUI checkpoints claiming they smelled alcohol or pot and suspected an open container or stash. The point is, no matter what constitutional right we cede or to what extent, the "authorities" will continue to push the limits and that is why the gun grab legislation is so important to everyone.


In Florida, DUI Checkpoints must be announced in advance, and they may not just search your vehicle for the fun of it. That's not to say that they can't find probable cause, usually a sniffer dog is at the checkpoint, if the dog alerts then they have probable cause.

Having trained dogs for many years it would not be to much trouble to train the dogs to alert to a hand signal.

I once had an attorney tell me that if a police officer asks you to step out of the car, do so take your keys with you and hit the power lock as soon as you are out of the car. If asked why you did that say, sorry just habit, if they ask for permission to search your locked car you are well within your rights to ask them to get a warrant first.

Police Officers have a tough job, and I support them in their efforts; but every time we surrender a Constitutional Right, we diminish our freedoms.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2013 17:26 
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David,

Quote:
Was the Chris Dorner episode a case of the government assassinating a citizen without due process?


Mr Dorner committed suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Dorner

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2013 20:36 
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Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
David,

Quote:
Was the Chris Dorner episode a case of the government assassinating a citizen without due process?


Mr Dorner committed suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Dorner

Don't belive everthing you read on the internet.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2013 20:44 
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Someone who will kill a cop will kill anyone. He doesn't care about consequences.

The massive manhunt for Dorner forced him into hiding. That's exactly what the police wanted. They didn't want him roaming around freely killing anybody who recognized him.

They would find his hiding place sooner or later. They didn't want to find him by following a trail of dead bodies.

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 Post subject: Re: Dorner
PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013 04:45 
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JMJ


Granted, dorner was extremely dangerous and needed to be stopped. Granted also a manhunt need to be done.

Nevertheless, that does NOT give any officers the right to break the law. Stopping vehicles without a warrant, as noted in this case. And also, the shooting of the two women. They were searching for a male suspect so they saw a truck with two women and somebody still fired?

Yes, I want a safe country--but not a police state. The Bill of Rights is there for a reason.

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