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PostPosted: 22 Jan 2013 16:01 
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A video has appeared online showing men shouting homophobic abuse at another man in east London, telling him to "get out of here" as "it is a Muslim area".

Last week, the East London Mosque condemned men shown in another video posted on the internet claiming to be "patrolling" Whitechapel.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21142148

Quote:
In the previous footage posted last week, a group of men announced themselves to passers-by as "vigilantes implementing Islam upon your own necks".

The video shows the men pouring alcoholic drinks down drains.



Quote:
In the latest video, a man is approached in Whitechapel and asked: "Don't you know this is a Muslim area? What's wrong with your face?

"Why are you dressed like that for? You're walking through a Muslim area dressed like a fag, mate.

"You need to get out of here quicker. You're dirty mate. Look at your shoes.

"Get out of here you fag... Don't stay around here any more."


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PostPosted: 22 Jan 2013 19:26 
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I really cannot understand how the British tolerate this.Quite simply Britain offers far better facilities than 3 rd world countries.As an Asian I don't blame the natives when they get suspicious of foreigners.Muslims seem to have totally failed in some cases to integrate and have become radicals.I tried to make friends with a Muslim in Britain on Facebook and got called a "white pig"

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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2013 00:18 
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Wow. The video entitled Muslims Enforcing Sharia Law on the Streets of London is pretty shocking. The British police should get down there and start patrolling round the clock.

I don't know why the British have allowed this to develop, either, but I know that Muslims I've talked to all say that the U.K. is the best place in Europe to be Muslim.

Notice that the narrator says something like Britain isn't so "Great" anymore, and that the drinking and homosexuality is the result of secularisation. A robust Christianity could have, should have, made this sort of scenario impossible. <sigh>

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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2013 00:33 
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Arwen wrote:
I don't know why the British have allowed this to develop, either, but I know that Muslims I've talked to all say that the U.K. is the best place in Europe to be Muslim.


In my opinion, a nanny state tends to facilitate an infantile populace.

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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2013 02:59 
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Britain isn't so "Great" anymore, and that the drinking and homosexuality is the result of secularisation.


Even so it is a much better place than from where this muslim originated

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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2013 11:33 
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This situation must present a real delimna to some people. They won't be able to decide whether they should be against the Islamists or the homosexialists. :?:

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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2013 15:16 
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David,

I can see what you mean. And while it has an amusing side, there is something important here.

Intimidating gays because they are gay is morally wrong and must be opposed. Similarly, intimidating Moslems because they are Moslem is wrong and must be opposed (I remember women in veils being spat upon during the Gulf Wars).

It's not about being against Islamists or homosexualists so much as being about morality.

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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2013 15:20 
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It's not about being against Islamists or homosexualists so much as being about morality.



I'll drink to that.

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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2013 20:01 
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Muslims I've talked to all say that the U.K. is the best place in Europe to be Muslim.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asaduddin_Owaisi

Quote:
For higher studies he left for London where he studied L.L.B, and Barrister-at-Law (Lincolns Inn), England.


http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... din-owaisi

Quote:
HYDERABAD: A shutdown is being observed here and in some other parts of Andhra Pradesh on Tuesday to protest Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen (MIM) chief and Hyderabad MP Asaduddin Owaisi's arrest in a seven-year-old case.

Shops, business establishments and educational institutions remained closed in the old city and other Muslim-majority areas in Hyderabad

Was he up to the same past time in London?

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PostPosted: 25 Jan 2013 19:46 
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Over here, they say, "You Christians must listen to us".

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013 15:33 
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In several European cities there exists Moslem areas where even the police cannot go into. They are called "No-Go" zones. It is like a state within a state.

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013 22:15 
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In several European cities there exists Moslem areas where even the police cannot go into

As an Indian I find this very sick.I have seen videos of karachi http://www.vice.com/tag/karachi and hope that Europe realizes what could happen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafeel_Ahmed
This is the way Britain treated a terrorist

Quote:
He had suffered burns to 90% of his body, and was not expected to survive—he had already been revived twice by 4 July.[16] The Sun reported Britain's National Health Service was paying over £5,000 a day to keep him alive, while security sources said this amount reaches £30,000 when security costs are included.

If this is not kindness and generosity then what is?

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013 22:39 
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fsimon wrote:
If this is not kindness and generosity then what is?


That is the influence of Christianity on the West.

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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2013 00:52 
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That is the influence of Christianity on the West.
Yes Kim and its great to have you back.

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PostPosted: 28 Jan 2013 10:22 
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Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
It's not about being against Islamists or homosexualists so much as being about morality.


That sounds nice unless you presume that opposing immorality is not 'being about morality'? Faith requires more than being; it as well requires doing. There is a difference between people and actions -being and doing.

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2013 23:47 
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I ran into this today:


More in France Are Turning to Islam, Challenging a Nation’s Idea of Itself

...........
There are persistent concerns that French prisons are fertile ground for conversions and for Islamic radicalism; observant Muslims are thought to make up a least a third of the inmate population, according to French news reports.
........a growing number of young people are now seen as converting to be better socially integrated in neighborhoods where Islam is dominant.

“In poor districts, it has become a reverse integration,” said Gilles Kepel, an expert on Islam and the banlieues, the poor, predominantly Muslim neighborhoods that ring Paris and other major cities.
...............
For Mr. Amghar, Islam provides more structure and discipline than other religions. It is a way to “refuse modernism,” get back to a society with more family values and a clearer distinction between men and women.
..........
“Secularism has become antireligious,” Mr. Chalghoumi said. “Therefore, it has created an opposite phenomenon. It has allowed people to discover Islam.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/04/world ... d=all&_r=0

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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2013 20:47 
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http://www.barenakedislam.com/2011/12/0 ... st-attack/

This article appears to be an year old but is very shocking

Quote:
Rhea, a support worker who helps care for people with autism and learning difficulties, said the sentence was ‘disgusting’. ‘It’s no punishment at all and sends out a message that it’s okay to do that to someone,’ she said. ‘The attack has had a devastating affect on my life and they have just been allowed to get away with it.’

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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2013 02:45 
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Prof Laurence Krauss the atheist attacks Britian for tolerance to Islam

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But he suggested in Britain people were often too polite to object to such practices as well as being cowed by those eager to protest whenever they felt "their cultural norms are not being met".
Atheism is acceptable but Islam not

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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2013 03:12 
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http://viewpure.com/zAivyEazJQ0

Islamic fundamentalism in Belgium-believe it or not :wink:

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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2013 06:09 
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fsimon wrote:
http://viewpure.com/zAivyEazJQ0

Islamic fundamentalism in Belgium-believe it or not :wink:

Interesting.

In this article she says she got no support from moderate Muslims.
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I was told it was a hunt for sensation. I was seeing a problem that wasn’t there. But then it became known that a Belgian convert had blown herself up in Iraq. If admit that I thought then for a moment, “Voila, there you have it already. Just solve it now.”
http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ko_04.html

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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013 08:30 
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One of the world’s most renowned theoretical physicists, at a recent speaking engagement at a university in England, demanded that his largely Muslim audience not be segregated by gender before he agreed to take part in the event. Arizona State University Professor Lawrence Krauss was then accused of intolerance by some in the audience.
Quote:
But he suggested in Britain people were often too polite to object to such practices as well as being cowed by those eager to protest whenever they felt "their cultural norms are not being met".

He said: "People are not only afraid to offend, but afraid to offend a vocal and aggressive group of people.

"There is a segment of the Islamic community that is very vocal about this."

The professor said: "I think the notion that these cultural norms should be carried out within a broader society that not only doesn't share them but that is free and open is a very serious problem."


Britons afraid to challenge radical Islam, says former Obama adviser

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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013 13:21 
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Now if the Muslims request that their polygamy customs be respected, what are the British going to do?

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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013 14:27 
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Silvina wrote:
Now if the Muslims request that their polygamy customs be respected, what are the British going to do?



They should honor that request, it should not be the government's business.

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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013 14:53 
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BobC wrote:
Silvina wrote:
Now if the Muslims request that their polygamy customs be respected, what are the British going to do?



They should honor that request, it should not be the government's business.


I guess what I meant is what if they want their marriages be "legalised" by the government, and recognised as any other marriage in the land. Doesn't England have laws against polygamy that need to be changed for that to happen?

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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013 14:59 
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Doesn't England have laws against polygamy that need to be changed for that to happen?


I have no idea, but I think laws against polygamy are a waste of government time and money. If a man and a wife, agree to add a sister wife (as the Mormons call it) why should it be the governments business? Mind you I'm not referring to Bigamy where a traveling salesman has wives in three cities.

It is a religious practice (or not) but either way should not be the government's business.

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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013 15:02 
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Silvina,

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Now if the Muslims request that their polygamy customs be respected, what are the British going to do?


I imagine the British government will react in the same way the US government reacted to the Mormons.

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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013 15:29 
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Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
Quote:
Now if the Muslims request that their polygamy customs be respected, what are the British going to do?


I imagine the British government will react in the same way the US government reacted to the Mormons.

The US government has reacted in various ways to the Mormons at different times. The reactions have ranged from violent confrontation to benign neglect.

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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013 15:36 
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David,

...and eventually, ah, persuaded them to abandon polygamy.

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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013 19:34 
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LASaxman wrote:
Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
Quote:
Now if the Muslims request that their polygamy customs be respected, what are the British going to do?


I imagine the British government will react in the same way the US government reacted to the Mormons.

The US government has reacted in various ways to the Mormons at different times. The reactions have ranged from violent confrontation to benign neglect.


Or just ignoring them.

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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013 19:40 
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Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
David,

...and eventually, ah, persuaded them to abandon polygamy.


Polygamous Mormon families can be found throughout the United States (and Canada) living quiet lives.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_poly2.htm

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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2013 19:50 
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BobC wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
I imagine the British government will react in the same way the US government reacted to the Mormons.

The US government has reacted in various ways to the Mormons at different times. The reactions have ranged from violent confrontation to benign neglect.


Or just ignoring them.

That's what benign neglect is a euphemism for.

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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 10:38 
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Once one swallows the camel of same-sex "marriage" why strain at the gnat of polygamy? :roll:

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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 13:06 
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gabriel wrote:
Once one swallows the camel of same-sex "marriage" why strain at the gnat of polygamy? :roll:



Exactly.

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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 13:22 
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gabriel wrote:
Once one swallows the camel of same-sex "marriage" why strain at the gnat of polygamy? :roll:


Actually, the camel was birth control. Once that hit the scene, marriage stopped being a contract with society and became a means of "personal discovery" and "happiness," whatever those terms are supposed to mean.

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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 15:24 
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Rose West wrote:
gabriel wrote:
Once one swallows the camel of same-sex "marriage" why strain at the gnat of polygamy? :roll:


Actually, the camel was birth control. Once that hit the scene, marriage stopped being a contract with society and became a means of "personal discovery" and "happiness," whatever those terms are supposed to mean.
Agree, but I would add divorce which has been equally damaging.

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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 16:35 
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I would say that divorce is a result of birth control, too.

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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 19:49 
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Divorce also legalizes serial polygamy.

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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 21:55 
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Divorce also legalizes serial polygamy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_(Islamic)

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 04:23 
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Simon, there is nothing at that link.

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 06:12 
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Simon, there is nothing at that link.

The link posted By Grace

Quote:
Britons afraid to challenge radical Islam, says former Obama adviser

is identical to the one posted by me

Quote:
Prof Laurence Krauss the atheist attacks Britian for tolerance to Islam

Broadband has awakened the "dataholic" in me-I like new data every time and wondered how many members would also be happy without a repetition

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 07:19 
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No the link that you posted in response to my post.

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 07:24 
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Simon, there is nothing at that link.

Sorry ,my bad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_(Islamic)



Quote:
Military[show]
Islamic studies
v t e
In Islam, there are separate rules for divorce for men and women under the terms of Islamic law (sharia). When a man has initiated a divorce, the procedure is called ṭalāq (Arabic: الطلاق‎). When a woman has initiated a divorce it is called khula (Arabic: خلع‎).
Shia and Sunni Muslims have different rules for performing an Islamic divorce. Sunni practice requires no witnesses, and allows a husband to end a relationship by saying the one, two or triple talaq. Sunnis also believe it to be wrong and against various Hadiths but accept it as final, especially Hanafi schools of jurisprudence if a man did utter it, i.e. the triple talaq in one go. The view on acceptability of this varies amongst the four Sunni groups of Islamic schools of jurisprudence. In all Sunni schools of jurisprudence, each talaq utterance should be followed by a waiting period of three menstrual periods for women or three month (iddah), when the couple are supposed to try to reconcile with the help of mediators from each family, until the third and final talaq.
It is also possible for a woman to petition a qadi (judge of Muslim jurisprudence) for a divorce under certain conditions. The circumstances which are regarded as acceptable vary amongst the four Sunni groups of Islamic schools of jurisprudence.
Shi'a scholars view the triple talaq (in one sitting or at one time) as a pagan pre-Islamic custom,[1] forbidden by Muhammad, but reinstated by Umar ibn al-Khattab, and thus sinful (haraam). Shi'a practice requires two witnesses,[2] followed by a waiting period (iddah) when the couple are supposed to try to reconcile with the help of mediators from each family. If the couple breaks the waiting period, the divorce is voided. Since Shi'a view Islamic divorce as a procedure stemming from a conflict rather than a decision, they do not use the procedure to end a temporary marriage.[3] The Shi'a annul the temporary marriage at the end of the period, without any divorce being involved, since its duration was predetermined at the outset, and there is not necessarily a conflict to resolve.
Such type of temporary marriage is not permitted in Sunni Islam, and is regarded as sinful and not even considered a marriage. Although, Sunnis accept it was permitted in the early days of Islam but subsequently prohibited by Muhammad in various hadith.
After the waiting period is over, the couple is divorced and the husband is no longer responsible for the wife's expenses, but remains responsible for the maintenance of the children, until they are weaned (qu'ran).
Contents [hide]
1 Talaq
1.1 Initiation
1.2 Reconciliation
1.3 Completion
1.4 Aftermath
2 Khula
3 See also
4 Notes
5 External links
[edit]Talaq

The Muslim husband may initiate the divorce process by pronouncing the talaq, the formula of repudiation, three times. The first two times the talaq is pronounced, it may be withdrawn. But the third time it is pronounced, the divorce is irrevocable. There are a range of systems specifying the requisite formalities to complete an irrevocable divorce, i.e., whether some period of time must elapse between each pronouncement of talaq, whether there must be mediation, or the need for witnesses. In countries where polygyny is permitted, there is no waiting period before the husband can remarry. The wife must usually wait three months after the third talaq has been spoken before remarrying (this period is known as iddah).[4][5][6][7]
The talaq is endorsed by several scholars of the Sunni theology, and some in the Zaydi theology. It consists of the husband saying the phrase "I divorce you" (in Arabic, talaq) to his wife, three times.[8]
Shīʻa and Sunnī have different rules to engage a talāq. The talāq has three steps:
Initiation
Reconciliation
Completion
[edit]Initiation
This is the stage where the talāq process is initiated.
According to most Sunnī scholars it consists of:
The husband saying talāq once in the presence of his wife.
According to most Shīʻa scholars:
Making a public announcement that you are starting the divorce process.
The Triple Talaq in one sitting doesn't find any place in Quran .
O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear Allah your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah: and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new situation. "
— Qur'an, Sura 65 (At-Talaq), ayat 1[9]
[edit]Reconciliation
According to Sunnī and Shīʻa jurisprudence, the couple is supposed to try to reconcile during the waiting period, with the help of mediators from each family. If the couple breaks the waiting period by engaging in sexual intercourse, they are deemed to have been reconciled and the divorce is voided. This is said in the Quran in the following ayats:
"And if you fear a breach between the two, then appoint judge from his people and a judge from her people; if they both desire agreement, Allah will effect harmony between them, surely Allah is Knowing, Aware."
— Qur'an, Sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 35[10]
"O you who believe! when you marry the believing women, then divorce them before you touch them, you have in their case no term which you should reckon; so make some provision for them and send them forth a goodly sending forth."
— Qur'an, Sura 33 (Al-Ahzab), ayat 49[11]
It is also said in the Quran that during that waiting period the wife must not be forced to leave her husband's home nor should she leave it herself unless the wife has committed indecency of some sort, in which case it is permitted for her to leave the house.
"O Prophet! when you divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed time, and calculate the number of the days prescribed, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, your Lord. Do not drive them out of their houses, nor should they themselves go forth, unless they commit an open indecency; and these are the limits of Allah, and whoever goes beyond the limits of Allah, he indeed does injustice to his own soul. You do not know that Allah may after that bring about reunion. "
— Qur'an, Sura 65 (At-Talaq), ayat 1[9]
[edit]Completion
After the completion of the talāq procedure, the couple are divorced, the husband is no longer responsible for the wife's expenses and she becomes non-mahram for him and so they must observe the hijāb rules.
Shīʻa scholars understand that when the waiting period (ʻidda) is over, the talāq procedure is completed. Two witnesses [12] are required to witness the completion of the talāq.
The relevant parts of the Qur'an are:
Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, either take them back on equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish the evidence (as) before Allah. Such is the admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever) prepares a way out."
— Qur'an, Sura 65 (At-Talaq), ayat 2[13]
"And when you divorce women and they reach their prescribed time, then either retain them in good fellowship or set them free with liberality, and do not retain them for injury, so that you exceed the limits, and whoever does this, he indeed is unjust to his own soul; and do not take Allah's communications for a mockery, and remember the favor of Allah upon you, and that which He has revealed to you of the Book and the Wisdom, admonishing you thereby; and be careful (of your duty to) Allah, and know that Allah is the Knower of all things."
— Qur'an, Sura 2 (Al-Baqara), ayat 231[14]
[edit]Aftermath
If the wife is divorced for the third time (i.e. married once, divorced once, married the second time, divorced the second time, and so on), then she becomes "harām" for her former husband. Otherwise, the couple would be able to remarry.
Even if divorce separates a man from his wife, he has to seek her help in caring for the child or another female if the mother agrees. He must pay for her expenses.
In practice:
In most Islamic states it is generally unacceptable for a divorced woman to live alone (as is usually also the case with unmarried women). In most situations women who find themselves divorced will return to live with their parents or to the household of another close relative.
And when you have divorced women and they have ended-- their term (of waiting), then do not prevent them from re-marrying their husbands when they agree among themselves in a lawful manner; with this is admonished he among you who believes in Allah and the last day, this is more profitable and purer for you; and Allah knows while you do not know."
— Qur'an, Sura 2 (Al-Baqara), ayat 232[15]
"And there is no blame on you respecting that which you speak indirectly in the asking of (such) women in marriage or keep (the proposal) concealed within your minds; Allah knows that you win mention them, but do not give them a promise in secret unless you speak in a lawful manner, and do not confirm the marriage tie until the writing is fulfilled, and know that Allah knows what is in your minds, therefore beware of Him, and know that Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing. "
— Qur'an, Sura 2 (Al-Baqara), ayat 235[16]
"For divorced women Maintenance (should be provided) on a reasonable (scale). This is a duty on the righteous."
— Qur'an, Sura 2 (Al-Baqara), ayat 241[17]
After divorce, Qur'an specifies responsibilities on divorcee and divorcer on behalf of their children.[18][19] Qur'an also prohibits interventions from the previous husband in the divorced woman's life.[20]
Following are some of the cases regarding child custody decided by Muhammad:
Abd-Allah ibn Umar narrates that a lady came to Muhammad and said: "For this son of mine, it is only my belly which was his abode, and my breasts which were his vessel and my lap which was his dwelling place. Now his father has divorced me and wants to take him away from me." Muhammad replied, "You are more entitled to keep him until you marry again." Sunnan Abu Dawood 2276
Abu Hurairah narrates that in a woman came to Muhammad and said, "My husband wants to take away from me this child even though he has brought over water for me from the well of Abu ‘Anbah and given me a lot of benefit." Muhammad replied, "Both of you can cast a lot on this." When the husband heard, he said, "Who will quarrel with me regarding this son of mine?" Muhammad said, "O son! This is your father and this is your mother; grasp the hand of the one you want to hold." The child grasped the mother's hand and she took him away. Sunnan Abu Dawood 2277
[edit]Khula

Main article: Khula
Khula is the right of a woman in Islam to seek a divorce or separation from her husband. A Muslim woman may petition a qadi, or in non-Islamic areas an Islamic community panel, to grant her divorce if the husband refuses. The waiting period (iddah) of a woman who seeks a divorce is one menstrual cycle or one month if she is post-menopauseal, i.e. ceased menstruating. This is to ensure she is not pregnant.[21] If the woman is pregnant, then the waiting period is until she gives birth.
Women's right to initiate divorce is often limited compared with that of men in the Middle East. While men can divorce their spouses easily, women often face legal and financial obstacles.[22][23] For example, in many cases the woman must repay her dowry and marriage expenses. She may also be required to forfeit child custody.[22][23] However, this contentious area of religious practice and tradition is being increasingly challenged by those promoting more liberal interpretations of Islam.
[edit]See also

Annulment
Annulment (Catholic Church)
Get (divorce document)
Marriage in Islam
Rights and obligations of spouses in Islam
[edit]Notes

^ jahiliyya
^ 'Aalim Network QR Witnesses for Marriage ]
^ nikah mut'ah
^ Freeland, R, "The Use and Abuse of Islamic Law", Volume 73, The Australian Law Journal, 130
^ Hasan, A, "Marriage in Islamic Law - A Brief Introduction", (March, 1999) Family Law, 164
^ Hinchcliffe, D, "Divorce in the Muslim World", (May, 2000), International Family Law, 63
^ South African Law Commission, Islamic Marriages and Related Matters, Project 59. July, 2003. [1]
^ http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles
_151_200/triple__talaq.htm
^ a b Quran 65:1
^ Quran 4:35
^ Quran 33:49
^ ref
^ Quran 65:2
^ Quran 2:231
^ Quran 2:232–233
^ Quran 2:235

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 08:55 
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Okay, what I was actually referring to was divorce in western society.

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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 15:46 
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Quote:
Okay, what I was actually referring to was divorce in western society.

That's fine.However muslim men can have 4 wives and divorce (human disposables)them at will which facilitates crimes

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