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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 20:29 
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I have been doing some research regarding the history of no-fault divorce legislation and I must state that I have yet to see any meaningful Catholic (e.g. US Bishop Conference efforts) past present or planned against no-fault divorce.

My understanding of no-fault divorce is that it represents not only a clear and present threat to marriage and family but as well it represents an assault on individual justice.

Clearly the Church in the US ministers in many regards to those affected by divorce -much as it ministers to those affected by, for instance, abortion. However, unlike the case of abortion where clearly there are direct efforts acted upon and funded to end abortion; as to the case of divorce -where are the direct efforts to oppose and end no-fault divorce?

Can anyone point me toward such an effort?

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 20:51 
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I don't have any resources for you, but I'm interested in the results of your research.

I suspect we may have difficulty for the simple reason that the Internet wasn't around in the 60's, and there's little interest in digitizing content from that era on what is, in the US, a settled matter of law, tragically.

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 20:53 
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The bishops of New York did oppose the implementation of no-fault divorce in New York in 2010.

http://www.catholiccourier.com/news/loc ... orce-bill/

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 20:59 
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This article:

http://mkg4583.wordpress.com/2009/09/07 ... ersary-of-“no-fault”-divorce  catholic-exchange/

...claims that Catholic dioceses in California were supportive of California's Family Law Act of 1969, which was the first to institute no-fault divorce in the US.

Quote:
Hayes even claimed that he worked with representatives of the Catholic Church and that the Archdiocese of Sacramento was particularly supportive.

Secondly, would Catholic Church officials have endorsed this bill if they’d known the full truth about it — that it would quickly turn into “unilateral divorce-on-demand” with the state doing a yeoman’s job for the one filing for divorce, leaving the other party defenseless in such a lawsuit?


I wonder if the more pressing question at the time was women "trapped" in abusive marriages? And the consequences were not foreseen? I don't know.

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 23:15 
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Kardinal wrote:
The bishops of New York did oppose the implementation of no-fault divorce in New York in 2010.

http://www.catholiccourier.com/news/loc ... orce-bill/


Thank you. If memory serves correctly, New York was the last State to fall under the spell. No doubt, many of our Bishops by then knew quite clearly what no-fault divorce actually represented and what fruits such laws were bearing.

I have the feeling that the US Bishops for the most part were caught unaware and as such did not oppose the "divorce justice" effort when in the seventies it began and soon spread throughout the nation.

I would like my interest in this topic to move beyond personal reflection and into some action -as such I seek an outlet. If there is or may ever be a Catholic effort to directly oppose no-fault divorce I will join the effort.

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 23:30 
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You might look into the efforts of the bishops in Malta and the Philippines in fighting legalisation of divorce. Those documents might have references to past ones.

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2013 16:32 
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Daniel,

Quote:
My understanding of no-fault divorce is that it represents not only a clear and present threat to marriage and family but as well it represents an assault on individual justice.


Agreed. Firmly agreed.

Quote:
I must state that I have yet to see any meaningful Catholic (e.g. US Bishop Conference efforts) past present or planned against no-fault divorce.


Perhaps you should look a little further afield than the USA?

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2013 19:24 
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Arwen wrote:
You might look into the efforts of the bishops in Malta and the Philippines in fighting legalisation of divorce. Those documents might have references to past ones.


Good suggestion. I will post links to anything substantive found.

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2013 19:28 
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Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
Perhaps you should look a little further afield than the USA?


That would appear the case now with the war -the US no longer encompassing the front lines but rather occupied territory.

I will join the resistance here when it presents itself.

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 21:05 
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Ronald Reagan signed the nation's first "no-fault" divorce bill into law in 1969 as governor of CA. He later told his son, Michael, that it was his greatest regret in public life. He eventually was able to see the untold damage and devastation that "no-fault" divorce inflicts on the family.

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 21:09 
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In looking up Reagan's regret over signing "no-fault" divorce into law, I came across the following interesting article.

http://catholicexchange.com/the-40th-anniversary-of-“no-fault”-divorce/

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 21:57 
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davidjohn wrote:
In looking up Reagan's regret over signing "no-fault" divorce into law, I came across the following interesting article.


Thank you for the much appreciated input. I was not aware of this and more.

Small excerpt from the article: The 40th Anniversary of “No-Fault” Divorce

Quote:
One of the bigger questions that Catholics and other Christians might consider is this: How did the State obtain such sweeping jurisdiction over this God-ordained institution? Is marriage merely a civil institution? Does pre-marital instruction, along with promises to live up to church teachings mean anything?

For Catholics, where does the Church’s canon law fit into the picture? And, where are the “church courts” that could hear cases falling within the her jurisdiction?

Do the Canons and teachings in Catechism apply only “after the fact” –- once the divorce is finalized? Or, are these elements meant to be a strong buffer, bringing couples back to their vows and to the teachings of the Church?

“Jurisdiction” is loaded with implications. Under whose jurisdiction do we place ourselves? Canon law is written for “The People of God.”

Most people who are intent on filing for divorce will seek the jurisdiction of the civil court. The first step is usually hiring an attorney to prepare the paperwork. But, what if it didn’t work that way?

Maybe Church officials should be prepared to assert jurisdiction when approached. Why should we be limited to only one jurisdiction? We are asked to make a commitment to church teachings at the front end of marriage. Why shouldn’t we ask church leaders to provide a forum like the one Paul talks about in 1 Cor. 6:1?

St. Paul admonishes us about bringing lawsuits against our brothers. We are supposed to be able to settle things amongst ourselves, using a fair and just process.


I too wonder how did the State obtain such sweeping jurisdiction over this God-ordained institution?

This travesty of justice may mark one of the first battles lost as far as religious liberty and the loss appears to have been orchestrated through deceit and subsequently accepted and institutionalized by surrender.

In essence, a contract premised upon religious precepts (well documented and detailed in the case of Catholics) is voided by the state each and every time the divorce process yields the preordained verdict and the divorce decree is issued and imposed.

One can conclude that no-fault divorce laws are not directly a strike against contract law but rather directly a strike against religious precepts that form a contract willingly entered into.

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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2013 07:46 
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I too wonder how did the State obtain such sweeping jurisdiction over this God-ordained institution?


It's worth remembering that for a long time, governments have been involved with marriage licenses, birth certificates, and what I'll call "fault divorces," i.e. contests that took place in a civil courtroom before a judge. I don't know- did this arise to provide a uniform record keeping after the reformation, in response to multiple church denominations having separate records? Whatever the reason was, the state has had various interests in these records. Taxes, military conscription, etc.

On a separate note, it seems to me that what was introduced about 40 years ago was called "no fault," which I can remember as providing for situations when both spouses agree they wished to end their marriage and they also agree as to dividing money, property, child custody etc. But by our present time, we seem to be talking really about a unilateral divorce, where the spouses do not agree; I suppose this arose because of a perception that the non-agreeing spouse sometimes had questionable motives, financial or simply malicious. I'm not saying all these non-agreeing spouses acted out of malice; I'm just speculating how we got to a situation where a unilateral divorce is so easy to get.

Back to 'no fault' divorces... The way I remember this, people began to view divorce as needing revision because even in cases where spouses agreed and neither accused the other of atrocious behavior, they still had to both hire lawyers and go to court, and one still had to accuse the other of something bad, because the law required these things. I remember people feeling, why is it the business of the judge?

Which leads to a question about marriage that would have implications for divorce. During the trial here (California) over the Proposition 8 amendment, the judge at one point asked lawyers on both sides to explain to him- Why is the government in the marriage business in the first place? I don't think anyone expected this question, and the answers were not great.

This is an interesting thread. I look forward to learning more, how these changes came about, and as one issue led to another, what positions did the Church take?

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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2013 14:17 
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AppleOfHisEye wrote:
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I too wonder how did the State obtain such sweeping jurisdiction over this God-ordained institution?


It's worth remembering that for a long time, governments have been involved with marriage licenses, birth certificates, and what I'll call "fault divorces," i.e. contests that took place in a civil courtroom before a judge. I don't know- did this arise to provide a uniform record keeping after the reformation, in response to multiple church denominations having separate records? Whatever the reason was, the state has had various interests in these records. Taxes, military conscription, etc.


In my opinion, the state as an agent of the people has always had a legitimate interest in securing and protecting individual rights including life and property rights. As well, the state as an agent of the people has always had an interest in maintaining civil order and as such to settling civil disputes justly employing due process.

For clarification, I would suggest that securing and protecting individual rights including life and property rights would include among other things assuring the well being of any minor children, securing property, and securing financial assets and income.

Obviously, the state can no more decree that two fall in love and marry as it can decree that two remain together for life. I would suggest that the state legitimately was never involved in imposing a marriage, separation, or divorce decision but rather was simply involved in documenting such situations -this record keeping was but a means to ensure and promote the legitimate end of securing and protecting individual rights including life and property rights.

I am sure some can get an idea of where this is leading; however, it seems the path to get there is longer than I initially thought and I must break here and return with more thoughts later... I will require more than one posting to congeal my thoughts in answer to this particular question.

Any who wish to proceed where I left off -feel free to assist in this journey.

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PostPosted: 11 Jan 2013 19:34 
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While I am still on pause, I add this to the discussion.

Address to the Tribunal of the Roman Rota - 28 January 2002

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Quote:
Among the initiatives should be those that aim at obtaining the public recognition of indissoluble marriage in the civil juridical order. Resolute opposition to any legal or administrative measures that introduce divorce or that equate de facto unions-including those between homosexuals- with marriage must be accompanied by a pro-active attitude, acting through juridical provisions that tend to improve the social recognition of true marriage in the framework of legal orders that unfortunately admit divorce.

On the other hand, professionals in the field of civil law should avoid being personally involved in anything that might imply a cooperation with divorce. For judges this may prove difficult, since the legal order does not recognize a conscientious objection to exempt them from giving sentence.

For grave and proportionate motives they may therefore act in accord with the traditional principles of material cooperation. But they too must seek effective means to encourage marital unions, especially through a wisely handled work of reconciliation.

Lawyers, as independent professionals, should always decline the use of their profession for an end that is contrary to justice, as is divorce. They can only cooperate in this kind of activity when, in the intention of the client, it is not directed to the break-up of the marriage, but to the securing of other legitimate effects that can only be obtained through such a judicial process in the established legal order. In this way, with their work of assisting and reconciling persons who are going through a marital crises, lawyers truly serve the rights of the person and avoid becoming mere technicians at the service of any interest whatever.

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2013 15:37 
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As well, the state as an agent of the people has always had an interest in maintaining civil order and as such to settling civil disputes justly employing due process.


Daniel,

The problem with "no-fault" divorce, in the context of the quote above, is that the state does not employ due process in these cases. There is no defense against a divorce case, thus due process is denied.

David


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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2013 15:51 
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But by our present time, we seem to be talking really about a unilateral divorce, where the spouses do not agree;


Charles,

I agree that what we are seeing today, in 4 out of 5 cases, is in essence, unilateral divorce. However, it is still "no-fault" from that standpoint that one spouse can be unfaithful to his/her spouse, (or be abusive to the spouse, or be a substance abuser), yet force divorce on the faithful, responsible spouse, and the wrong done by the one has no bearing on obtaining the divorce, and likely will not effect custody and/or support. I've seen a case where the faithful husband was nonetheless forced into divorce by his unfaithful spouse, yet his wife got full custody of their minor children and two-thirds of his income. (No, this is not me.) This man was a good husband and father. His wife often posted what a "wonderful hubby" he was on Facebook. But, when she met temptation and gave into it, her infidelity had no bearing on the courts destroying a good man.

And, unfortunately, it happens all the times. Usually to men, but I know women who also have been devastated by unjust court decisions. A book that exposes this corruption of the courts is Stephen Baskerville's "Taken Into Custody: The War Against Fathers, Marriage, and the Family."

It is my contention that, while it is definitely important that we oppose same-sex marriage, if we are ever going to get serious about defending marriage, we need to address this corrupt institution of "no-fault" divorce. Otherwise, we're just "re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic."

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2013 17:07 
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Marriage was destroyed by heterosexuals by contraception and divorce. Same sex unions are just the final fruit of that destruction.

I see the bishops preaching against same sex unions, but I haven't yet seen a call to repent our failure to promote Humanae Vitae. At the Eighth Station Jesus tells the Women of Jerusalem to weep for their sins and the sins of their children, not for Him the effect of those sins.

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2013 17:50 
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I see the bishops preaching against same sex unions, but I haven't yet seen a call to repent our failure to promote Humanae Vitae.


Joe,

You are so right. And without calling for this repentence, and preaching against unjust, "no-fault" divorce, that has destroyed so many lives of those born to these marriages (and often the lives of innocent, faithful spouses), and against contraception, which has led to abortion, and the destruction of tens of millions of unborn children(and again, often the lives of those who bought into the lie that abortion would solve their problems, both the post-abortive women, as well as millions of men), preaching against same-sex unions is the equivalent of closing the barn doors after the horses have escaped.

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2013 23:25 
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davidjohn wrote:
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As well, the state as an agent of the people has always had an interest in maintaining civil order and as such to settling civil disputes justly employing due process.


Daniel,

The problem with "no-fault" divorce, in the context of the quote above, is that the state does not employ due process in these cases. There is no defense against a divorce case, thus due process is denied.

David


Exactly. I will eventually get around to completing my thoughts on this. As an aside, I will add that this legal change in reality has not been incorporated into how Church ministries and functions administratively and lawfully 'deal' with civil divorce. At one time a civil divorce was one thing e.g. a possible lessor evil that with some rare exceptions was assumed so because of common law and due process -the assumption of due process and justice was valid before no-fault --now divorce is something else altogether e.g. an evil means where justice as a result is but the rare exception.

One example that seems glaringly obvious to myself where change is needed in the USA is in the requirement that those who wish to petition the Tribunal with questions as to the validity of their marriage are first required to be divorced. In essence, by analogy -those that wish to see if the baby is legitimate are first required to cut the baby in half. This makes no sense to myself....

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2013 23:29 
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davidjohn wrote:
It is my contention that, while it is definitely important that we oppose same-sex marriage, if we are ever going to get serious about defending marriage, we need to address this corrupt institution of "no-fault" divorce. Otherwise, we're just "re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic."


I agree, that is my hope. I feel that this effort is one that I must pursue and assist with.

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2013 23:32 
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dlm wrote:
One example that seems glaringly obvious to myself where change is needed in the USA is in the requirement that those who wish to petition the Tribunal with questions as to the validity of their marriage are first required to be divorced. In essence, by analogy -those that wish to see if the baby is legitimate are first required to cut the baby in half. This makes no sense to myself....


As an aside, a legal separation for legal reasons specified would make sense to me.

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2013 01:58 
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+Philip here in Portsmouth (Eng and Wales) actually brought up Humanae Vitae in his latest pastoral letter. The 'prefaces' by different priests reading it (I attended more than one Mass that weekend) were interesting....

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2013 11:40 
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dlm wrote:
...

One example that seems glaringly obvious to myself where change is needed in the USA is in the requirement that those who wish to petition the Tribunal with questions as to the validity of their marriage are first required to be divorced. In essence, by analogy -those that wish to see if the baby is legitimate are first required to cut the baby in half. This makes no sense to myself....

The Judicial Vicar for our diocese once told me that is a legal requirement. Any action before the divorce can be construed as Alienation of Affection and lead to a civil suit.

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2013 15:13 
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gabriel wrote:
The Judicial Vicar for our diocese once told me that is a legal requirement. Any action before the divorce can be construed as Alienation of Affection and lead to a civil suit.


I have heard that often. One could also suggest that the divorce requirement causes greater damage and injustice than a potential monetary loss which might be mitigated by simply purchasing an insurance policy. In my opinion, (paraphrasing from the Address to the Tribunal of the Roman Rota - 28 January 2002) the aim of ALL in the Church should be toward obtaining the public recognition of indissoluble marriage in the civil juridical order and as well to seek effective means to encourage marital unions, especially through a wisely handled work of reconciliation. As such, I would suggest a legal separation be recommended instead so that there is no legitimacy given to any that may recommend directly or indirectly that one pursue a divorce.

Further, in the US -Canon Law is quite clear and Religious Liberty quite recognized -considering the two spouses enter freely into an 'agreement' that is in practice required to be premised upon Canon Law which is well documented I would think that the state could not ever find the Church at fault in such a case in any civil court. If the Church can not do this what else can it not do? Maybe I am missing something not so obvious?

Anyway, it seems odd that a civil lawsuit premised upon protecting a marriage from a third party (the Church) could be brought in a court that has abandoned protecting marriage? Interesting... I wonder on what type of convoluted interpretation of civil law this could be possible?

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PostPosted: 22 Jan 2013 00:11 
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Daniel,
Something in another thread made me go off on a wild goose chase, and I came across this. If you use the "find" function on your computer for "Catholic" you should get 14 hits.
http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/plr/vol27/iss4/4/

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PostPosted: 22 Jan 2013 14:50 
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Arwen wrote:
Daniel,
Something in another thread made me go off on a wild goose chase, and I came across this. If you use the "find" function on your computer for "Catholic" you should get 14 hits.
http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/plr/vol27/iss4/4/


Grace,

Thank you. I will take a look.

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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2013 14:46 
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Another tidbit I just came across to add to the discussion.

Address to the Tribunal of the Roman Rota - 28 January 2002

-small excerpt:
Quote:
From these principles one can draw many practical consequences of a pastoral, moral and juridical nature. I will mention a few that are connected in a special way with your judicial activity.

Above all, you can never forget that you have in your hands that great mystery St Paul spoke of (cf. Eph 5,32), both when you deal with a sacramental marriage in the strict sense and also when the marriage bears in itself the primordial sacred character, that is called to become a sacrament through the baptism of the spouses. The consideration of the sacramentality highlights the transcendence of your function, the bond that links it to the economy of salvation. The religious dimension should for this reason permeate all your work. From handling scientific studies on marriage to the daily activity of the administration of justice, there is no room in the Church for a vision of marriage that is merely immanent and profane, simply because such a vision is not true theologically and juridically.

In this perspective, for example, it is necessary to take seriously the obligation imposed on the judge by canon 1676 to favour and to seek actively the possible convalidation and reconciliation of the marriage. Naturally the same attitude of support for marriage and the family must prevail before turning to the tribunal. In pastoral assistance consciences must be patiently enlightened with the truth concerning the transcendent duty of fidelity presented in an attractive and favourable way. Working towards a positive overcoming of marital conflicts and in providing assistance to the faithful who are in an irregular marital situation, it is necessary to create a synergy that involves everyone in the church: pastors of souls, jurists, experts in the psychological and psychiatric sciences, other laity, especially those who are married and have life experience. All must keep in mind that they are dealing with a sacred reality and with a question that touches on the salvation of souls.

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2013 09:51 
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Since it now seems that homosexual sex premised marriage is all but inevitable whether it be imposed upon society by hook or by crook I was reminded of this thread I started recently to discuss not only the demise of the marriage institution but as well just what the Church should do to oppose its demise. Surely, if all Catholics opposed whatever lunatic laws were passed or opposed lunatic judgements handed down by courts then such edicts and or laws would by default become irrelevant. In other words, a law that cannot be enforced becomes irrelevant...

It looks as if the time to do more than talk quickly approaches... On that note some may wonder how did the institution of marriage get to this point? It would seem that a focus on fantasy, romance, happiness and self-fulfillment left reality, hard work, and sacrifice on the altar... Not many provided nor even provide today much if any opposition to this trend. So here is where we are now -at the gates of Sodom peaking in RATHER than turning away...

Anyway, here is something that some may find interesting -it is actually a book review on a book I have not read and may not even read; however, the review brings up some good points as to the 'history' of marriage and how it has evolved both in good and bad ways.

The Collapse of Marriage

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Scholars such as Max Weber, Alan Macfarlane, Steven Ozment, Jack Goody and Laslett would all say that elements of Judaism, early Christianity, Roman Catholic canon law and the Protestant Reformation -- of both Luther and Calvin -- provided much of the religiocultural value system that fueled this revolution in marriage. Coontz gives scant attention to these sources. Furthermore, she gives no attention at all to Genesis 1 and 2, which informed the marriage traditions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In a book of 430 pages, the role of Judaism gets no discussion whatsoever, early Christianity receives little more than two pages, and Luther and the Protestant Reformation appear on a meager three pages. Augustine and Aquinas, two of the greatest theorists of both Christian and Western marriage, appear nowhere in the book. Peter Lombard, who crafted the crucial Catholic canon-law emphasis on marital consent, gets only a few words. Calvin, who extensively influenced the city of Geneva’s marriage law in both church and civil courts and subsequently the shape of marriage in Calvinist countries throughout the world, is not mentioned.

Building on the Catholic emphasis on the importance of free marital consent, Luther and Calvin developed further the covenantal understanding of marital commitment, elevated the status of women, emphasized the freedom of young adults to choose their partners, helped make marriage more compassionate and established marriage as a civic institution regulated by secular law yet also blessed and given meaning by the church. These beliefs and values interacted with early capitalism and the emergence of the nation-state to give us the Western marriage system that Laslett describes and most of us assume.

Although Coontz neglects the role of religion in shaping Western marriage, she is on to something when she says that reducing marriage to romantic love and sexual satisfaction will contribute to its near collapse, if not its death. The last chapters of her book document the present decline of marriage through the disconnection of childbirth and child-rearing from marriage, the rise of cohabitation, and the increase in single people living their lives and organizing their sexuality outside of publicly identifiable relationships, whether marital or nonmarital.

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"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51


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PostPosted: 18 May 2013 11:33 
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The feminist, pro-father, and pro-child case against no-fault divorce

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May 17, 2013 (thepublicdiscourse.com) - How appropriate that Justice Alito brought up cellphones in the recent Supreme Court hearings on the marriage cases. Because these days it seems like it is easier to get out of a marriage than it is to get out of a cellphone contract.

It is no secret that marriage is in a state of severe crisis in America. And while academics, statisticians, and pundits may quarrel about the exact divorce rate or its causes, no one would deny that the widespread legalization of no-fault divorce beginning in the early 1970s saw an explosion of divorce in this country.

Yet as social conservatives, and even many liberals, wring their hands about marital and familial breakdown, few seem to question whether our experiment with treating marriage like a restaurant experience—order what you like and send it back if you change your mind—is worth reconsidering.

Instead, no-fault divorce has become an assumed feature of the landscape of unbridled American freedom. Whereas once freedom in this country meant the right to live a good life, the ability to be a moral agent in the human enterprise, the chance to chase happiness, it now increasingly appears to mean the right to do whatever you want whenever you feel like it, regardless of whom you destroy in the process.

No-fault divorce is destroying women, children, and men. More precisely, divorce destroys marriage, and the destruction of marriage harms every party involved. The legality of no-fault divorce just makes it infinitely easier to hurt people. There are no two ways about it. No one comes out of a divorce a happier and more whole person.

Particularly offensive no-fault divorces are those where one spouse is protesting. In these cases, one spouse is literally abandoning the other (and frequently the children as well), despite having made public vows and having signed a contract before civil and religious officials stating their lifelong commitment to his or her spouse.

In this country you can come home from work and tell your spouse the marriage is over and he or she can do nothing but cry, and fight for the best financial payout possible. Try doing that with Verizon. Or while under contract to buy a home. Or with your gym membership. You’ll get laughed at.

Eighty percent of divorces are unilateral. The legal sanctioning of human abandonment must end.


A good editorial that hits on many things. I was just thinking about this. I find it quite sad that conservatives and this includes the Church BARELY mount an opposition effort against the push for homosexual marriage and when it comes to opposing no-fault divorce the opposition the Church promotes is all but irrelevant. :oops:

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"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51


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