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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2013 19:46 
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French President Francois Hollande has stepped into a heated debate on the role Catholic schools will play in shaping children’s views regarding the legalization of same-sex marriage in the country.

France may become the wealthiest, most powerful nation to legalize gay marriage this year, when a bill approved by the Socialist administration heads to parliament for debate this month. But the Catholic Church has taken a stance against the bill, and now Catholic schools -- along with their students -- have become embroiled in the controversy.

It began when Eric Labarre, secretary-general of the national Catholic school system, sent a letter in early December urging educators to discuss same-sex marriage with students in class.

“Every primary and secondary school should take the appropriate steps to ensure everyone has the freedom to make an informed decision over the choices the government is considering today,” said the letter, according to France24.

Education Minister Vincent Peillon sent a quick response, arguing that discussing gay marriage in Catholic classrooms would not be appropriate.

“I have the deepest respect for the Catholic school system. But, the institution, which is under contract with the state, must respect the principle that everyone has the right to a neutral and free thought,” he wrote on Dec. 4, implying that Catholic teachers might use their classrooms to influence students against the idea of gay marriage.



http://www.ibtimes.com/gay-marriage-sho ... nde-997378

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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2013 19:57 
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Egalite. Fraternite. Secularite.

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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2013 20:01 
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Jeff,

Liberté, égalité, fraternité are not the only Masonic values. Sécularisme has always been very much a Masonic value.

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 00:31 
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So it's okay to indoctrinate them in public schools, but there should be silence on the matter in Catholic schools. :roll:

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 00:58 
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President Francois Hollande and his government clashed with the Catholic Church last weekend, telling Catholic schools not to discuss the law with their pupils and urging state education officials to report anti-gay discussions at Catholic schools.
Oh, boy.

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Leaders of almost all main faiths in France have spoken out against the law, but not called on their followers to march in Sunday's demonstration to avoid giving the opposition campaign an overly religious tone.
This march planned for Sunday is probably the last chance to stop homosexual marriage being put into law. They should pull out all the stops.

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Cardinal Andre Vingt-Trois, head of the French Church, Chief Rabbi Gilles Bernheim and French Muslim Council head Mohammed Moussaoui have all decided not to join the street protest.


French Muslims join opposition to same-sex marriage

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 07:19 
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Arwen wrote:
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President Francois Hollande and his government clashed with the Catholic Church last weekend, telling Catholic schools not to discuss the law with their pupils and urging state education officials to report anti-gay discussions at Catholic schools.
Oh, boy.

Quote:
Leaders of almost all main faiths in France have spoken out against the law, but not called on their followers to march in Sunday's demonstration to avoid giving the opposition campaign an overly religious tone.
This march planned for Sunday is probably the last chance to stop homosexual marriage being put into law. They should pull out all the stops.

Quote:
Cardinal Andre Vingt-Trois, head of the French Church, Chief Rabbi Gilles Bernheim and French Muslim Council head Mohammed Moussaoui have all decided not to join the street protest.


French Muslims join opposition to same-sex marriage


And the government will continue to stomp on the Catholic Church so long as the Church lets them.

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 09:45 
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bali wrote:
And the government will continue to stomp on the Catholic Church so long as the Church lets them.

BobA, Grace,

This commentary could change your mind about Cardinal André Vingt-Troisthe and the French Church: The Reawakening of the Church of France

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The archbishop of Paris is no longer a general without an army. The bishops are with him too. They have elected him president of the episcopal conference, something that had never happened with his predecessor Jean-Marie Lustiger, a man of pope Karol Wojtyla but always left alone.

The Church of France was once called the "eldest daughter of the Church." As a creative minority, it could become that again. Even if it is defeated in the kingdom of this world.

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 09:55 
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ianJM wrote:
bali wrote:
And the government will continue to stomp on the Catholic Church so long as the Church lets them.

BobA, Grace,

This commentary could change your mind about Cardinal André Vingt-Troisthe and the French Church: The Reawakening of the Church of France

Quote:
The archbishop of Paris is no longer a general without an army. The bishops are with him too. They have elected him president of the episcopal conference, something that had never happened with his predecessor Jean-Marie Lustiger, a man of pope Karol Wojtyla but always left alone.

The Church of France was once called the "eldest daughter of the Church." As a creative minority, it could become that again. Even if it is defeated in the kingdom of this world.


Thank you Ian, that is encouraging; it will be an interesting battle to follow since I suspect it is only a couple of years ahead of our situation here.

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 12:03 
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BobA,

Perhaps, France is where the tide changes for the Church in Europe, where the revival of Christianity is the Holy Father's papal mission. It would be fitting as the country, which Hilaire Belloc once put it, was the battleground on which the great questions of the Faith and Western civilisation have always been fought out. It also gave us some of the greatest saints and Catholic institutions, but it was also where lethargy in the faith in Europe took root and led to its decay in the continent.

With France having the most number of approved Marian apparitions, and with Our Lady as our most powerful advocate and intercessor for the conversion of sinners everywhere, maybe the country would once again emerge as the eldest sister of the Church in Europe, if not the world.

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 12:12 
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ianJM wrote:
BobA,

Perhaps, France is where the tide changes for the Church in Europe, where the revival of Christianity is the Holy Father's papal mission. It would be fitting as the country, which Hilaire Belloc once put it, was the battleground on which the great questions of the Faith and Western civilisation have always been fought out. It also gave us some of the greatest saints and Catholic institutions, but it was also where lethargy in the faith in Europe took root and led to its decay in the continent.

With France having the most number of approved Marian apparitions, and with Our Lady as our most powerful advocate and intercessor for the conversion of sinners everywhere, maybe the country would once again emerge as the eldest sister of the Church in Europe, if not the world.


Indeed France could again be a great witness and service to Europe and the world .... it is a long road back for Europe it seems. Is my memory defective or was one of our Pope's earliest statements about the possibility of "losing" Europe? It struck me at the time that it was a boldly prophetic thing for a European born Pope to say and a strong warning about how far European nations had drifted from Christianity.

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 12:26 
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Simon,

Pope Benedict XVI has always been concerned about Europe losing its Christian roots through relativism, modernism, secularisation and Islamisation. But he believed in a new springtime for Christianity in the continent, which is now more urgent than ever. Read here for some insight: Christianity Will Rekindle in Europe

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“[T]he desire for God … is profoundly inscribed into each human soul and cannot disappear. Certainly we can forget God for a time … but God never disappears. This restlessness … is an expression of the hope that man may, ever and anew … start to journey towards this God.”

“The Gospel … is true and can therefore never wear out. In each period of history, it reveals new dimensions … as it responds to the needs of the hearts and minds of human beings, who can walk in this truth and so discover themselves,” the Pope said. “It is for this reason, therefore, that I am convinced there will also be a new springtime for Christianity.”

“Ideologies have their days numbered. They appear powerful and irresistible, but, after a certain period, they wear out and lose their energy because they lack profound truth. They are particles of truth, but, in the end, they are consumed.”

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 12:31 
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Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
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Education Minister Vincent Peillon sent a quick response, arguing that discussing gay marriage in Catholic classrooms would not be appropriate.

“I have the deepest respect for the Catholic school system. But,


But, but, but...

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 15:29 
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ianJM wrote:
BobA,

Perhaps, France is where the tide changes for the Church in Europe, where the revival of Christianity is the Holy Father's papal mission. It would be fitting as the country, which Hilaire Belloc once put it, was the battleground on which the great questions of the Faith and Western civilisation have always been fought out. It also gave us some of the greatest saints and Catholic institutions, but it was also where lethargy in the faith in Europe took root and led to its decay in the continent.

With France having the most number of approved Marian apparitions, and with Our Lady as our most powerful advocate and intercessor for the conversion of sinners everywhere, maybe the country would once again emerge as the eldest sister of the Church in Europe, if not the world.


I pray it does. I have had my head in the sand these past few years and was shocked when I realized how far France and Spain had drifted.

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 15:41 
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bali wrote:
I pray it does. I have had my head in the sand these past few years and was shocked when I realized how far France and Spain had drifted.


Spain is of particular interest to myself.

The victory that the coalition of anarchists, socialists and communists failed to achieve in the Spanish Civil War was recently won politically and it would appear that the Church increasingly comes under attack by the wolves -many who now in power no longer see the necessity of even feigning to don sheeps clothing.

Will there be another Civil War? I wonder...

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 20:41 
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Grace,

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So it's okay to indoctrinate them in public schools, but there should be silence on the matter in Catholic schools.


The view of the Education Minister is that since France is a secularist republic, non-secularists (ie Catholics) should therefore be excluded from political discussions.


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...but not called on their followers to march in Sunday's demonstration to avoid giving the opposition campaign an overly religious tone.


Well, there's a good reason for that; historically the Catholic Church in France has aligned itself, or rather, allowed itself to become aligned, with political parties of the far Right.

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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013 22:18 
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As for France, from a worldly perspective, I don't think things look good at all. I read that the number of practicing homosexuals is greater than the number of Mass-going Catholics. The Muslims might have more sway in preventing homosexual marriage there actually. The politicians in France have promised that homosexual marriage would become law THIS year, before summer.

ianJM wrote:
But he believed in a new springtime for Christianity in the continent, which is now more urgent than ever. Read here for some insight: Christianity Will Rekindle in Europe

THAT is the most encouraging thing I've seen. I mean, it seems pretty dark and dire, but the popes have been remarkably prescient about where the culture is going. Has anybody seen that film? It looks interesting.

dlm wrote:
Spain is of particular interest to myself.
Did you see this: Socialist Politician Says Spanish Bishop Should Be ‘Muzzled’ ?
"Bishop Demetrio Fernandez of Cordoba is attacked by a provincial government spokesman for arguing that men and women are both different and complementary." For saying the obvious? Sheesh, we are in big trouble. :roll:


Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/so ... z2HYCQKDaP

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