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As the US debates gun control and some question the very legitimacy of the right to bear arms as a check against tyrannical government I wonder how many are familiar with the Battle of Athens?

Battle of Athens (1946)

-small excerpt:


Some like Obama might attempt to relegate the Battle of Athens to a bygone era that existed before progressive government really started to protect citizens and protect their rights. I might agree with this Utopian vision if not for Arizona where Obama continues to attempt to deny the citizens protection that he as president swore to provide.

Obama sent weapons to arm citizens and facilitate the Arab Spring YET he denies Arizona and now works to deny all citizens? I guess it depends who the tyrant is?

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

Very interesting. I'd never heard of it. Thanks for sharing.
It seems that there were no negative consequences for the veterans/citizens. I wonder what would happen if anybody tried that today?

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Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

Many have not heard of it. At the time, the news made headlines and it was discussed by all as a lesson to be remembered by both elected officials and citizens.

There are some similarities today to what was going on back then as far as crony capitalism, political machines, and a government takeover of the private sector with the new deal that promoted leftist ideology -people in general were rebellious against an unchecked government that no longer was subject to the citizens but treated citizens as subjects, a government that directed servants rather than served citizens. Then like today there were many war experienced veterans that put it all on the line and fought for the ideals, principles and rights they returned home to find were being trampled upon and denied them. One major difference between now and then is that the mass media was more critical of government then whereas today it seems the media is no longer a check against government but rather a government propaganda mouthpiece. If the same thing happened today I think one would see a news portrayal quite similar to how the Tea Party was and is portrayed -e.g. as racist bigots.

It should not be lost on any that it was veterans that led and risked life and limb for liberty. Those that have served the country are proven as those who will risk life to defend the very principles and rights that are the enemies of those who would be tyrants.

In my opinion, the situation today is not yet ripe enough to precipitate such an action; however, we are close and getting closer. No telling what four more years of the rule of Obama versus the rule of law will yield. Americans are patient; however, the silent majority will come alive if pushed too far.

I suspect that if this happened today that there would be casualties, media hysterics and as well a divided citizenry as was seen during the Revolution with those on the side of the Constitution and individual freedom and those on the side of Obama, loyal collectivists wishing to impose his rule.

Anyway, if you search the web you can find more on this topic -for your immediate perusal here is an additional in depth article on The Battle Of Athens:

-small excerpt:

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

For any interested, let me point out that there was a television movie made, produced by Hallmark based upon the incident.

An American Story (TV 1992) - IMDb

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

I'm familiar with it.

Would go down extremely differently today. To have something similar happen, we would have to reverse the militarization of the police that has been such an insidious trend recently. THAT is a real problem in America.

(Yes, I linked to Cato. Pick your jaw up off the floor. They're not ALWAYS wrong... )

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Jeff Stevens

I agree Jeff, such an attempt today would result in terrible bloodshed and the militarized police would ultimately win, perhaps with the aid of the military. The probable loss would not stop such an action from occurring, it wouldn't be the first such uprising against formidable odds including our fight with the British. I fear there are certain government actions pending that could drive some to violence, I hope and pray not but I don't exclude the possibility. Escalating violence by and against the citizens could result in a civil war of unimaginable proportions.

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BobA

You guys need to study the Swamp Fox, the Minute Men, the Taliban, the Apache Indians, Fidel Castro and all the other great hit and run fighters. It is usually conceded that 1 gurrella fighter will occupy 7 regulars, and I would count that as Militarized Police being "Regulars".

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Bob C

I agree with the effectiveness of gorilla warfare but I also realize the level to which such a conflict could escalate. I'm not so sure a relatively unorganized resistance could ultimately defeat our highly trained, disciplined, technologically advanced and equipped military who have been fighting such gorilla scenarios since Korea. Let's just hope we never see it here.

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BobA

There is a reason it was called the battle of Athens and not the war of Athens. I think that a future conflict IF one should come to pass if drawn out beyond a battle into a war would necessarily be more a guerrilla war similar to the Revolution.

Remember, members of our highly trained, disciplined, technologically advanced and equipped military swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; and that they will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.

As far as a specific event, when if ever direct orders conflict with supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States THEN those charged with executing such orders will have to make a decision. I would not necessarily confine such potential rebellious action to just the military or to acts of just physical force alone; elected officials and as well federal employees swear a similar oath and may just act within the scope of their actions to rebel by sabotage or subterfuge. I myself will never comply with the health care act and that is probably just the beginning of my 'rebellion'. If conflict escalates I imagine an underground network of patriots in all manner of positions would quickly be established and what would start as a series of defensive actions would eventually necessarily escalate into an offensive campaign.

Some groups have already formed to discuss grassroots defense against any threats to freedom.

Veteran Defenders of America - a division of US Patriots Union

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

BobA,

I would never suggest that is an action that should be taken, but let's be real here we left Vietnam if not defeated by the gurrellas we faced then certainly worn down by them. I'm guessing similiar success will be the final result for NATO Forces in Afghanistan.

Additionally, what percentage of Active Forces will take up Arms against their own citizens?

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Bob C

It's your last question that bothers me the most. I'm not sure how many of our troops will obey their orders, assuming the brass even issues the orders, being convinced they are acting for the good of the country. I'm much less sure of how the local and state police and guard will react to orders against the citizens; I'd rather take my chances with the regular military. In my mind this scenario is pretty horrifying to imagine in the US but entirely possible.

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BobA

BobC,
I've been thinking about your Viet Nam and Afghanistan comment, wondering what would make a similar action stateside different. The answer is obvious, the military cannot pull out, this conflict would have to run its course.

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BobA

You might consider as a precedent what happened back in the fifties when the Federal Government sent troops into Southern States to force integration.

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David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

Gentlemen,

"Guerrilla".

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

I didn't think it was necessary to post a message just to correct a misspelling.

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Jeff Stevens

Clearly, what happened back in the fifties was that the Federal Government sent troops into Southern States to uphold the Constitution. Something they did not do in Athens. Some could suggest and rationally argue that the Federal Government acted quickly because of what transpired in Athens.

It could also be argued that if not for the issue of slavery -more precisely, the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863 by President Abraham Lincoln two years into the bloody civil war that Union soldiers may not have continued to wage war against their fellow citizens.

With the Emancipation Proclamation Lincoln effectively transformed a war premised upon political differences and destined to be decided based upon military might alone into a moral war with the Union fighting to uphold principles declared inalienable in the Constitution -namely freedom.

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

It was IMO to correct the misuse of terms. Gurrella or Gorilla

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Bob C

Jeff,



I did.



(There are non-Catholics who visit this Forum.)

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)