Catholic Online Forum

Daniel,

What sorts of firearms do you believe you have a right to own?

Would you please demonstrate why you have a right to own those particular firearms?

Any I wish to own.

I will demonstrate nothing. WHY? God endowed me the right to life and the right to self defense necessarily emanates from this God given right. This truth is self evident...

Jeff,

Some of those are not really a Firearm.

Of course the 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to Bear Arms, so I suppose that if one could Bear a Titan II then the argument could be made......

Some of those are not really a Firearm.

Let me add that defense of property is as well something some consider a right.

The humor to me is the topic always finds it's way to including Hitler!

Doesn't change my belief they want to ban all guns at all.

...under current laws the bureau [ATF] is prohibited from creating a federal registry of gun transactions.

Okay, here's one area under the topic...



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/26/us/le ... .html?_r=0

Related to what was said much earlier in the conversation - yeah, this is (at least on the face) in the category of affecting people who are already law-abiding and concerns investigation more than prevention. I'd disagree at least in part, though.

The word "current" means something has to be changed, nothing more. It seems no one understands that by definition criminals do not obey laws, law abiding people obey laws so hamstringing the law abiding gun owner does nothing to solve the problem at hand.

What about the 'laws' aspect of current laws. The writer as well implies that this 'hurdle' preventing further federal power is simply a matter of legislation. In reality, the federal is limited by the Constitution and has no direct power to regulate gun sales and ONLY does so now via an indirect liberal interpretation of the commerce clause.

The government overlords and their useful idiots have a delusional dream; however, I know at least one person that stands in the way of them obtaining it -me.

Catholic bishops call for gun control, mental health reforms The governing body of the U.S. Catholic Church is calling for lawmakers to tighten gun regulations and improve access to mental healthcare in the wake of last Friday's mass shooting in Newtown, Conn.

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops released a statement Friday as the National Rifle Association prepared to address the public for the first time since a shooter murdered 27 people, mostly children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School. ...

It is reported that the Bishops have come out in support of gun control legislation. I think they just took a stroll in a mine field. It is a safe bet that they can't make any statement regarding limiting Constitutional Rights to defend children that the media won't use against them.

Call for Action in Response to Newtown Tragedy

Bishop Stephen E. Blaire of Stockton,
Bishop John C. Wester of Salt Lake City,
Bishop Kevin C. Rhoades of Fort Wayne-South Bend


The Lord Jesus Christ, in his Sermon on the Mount, teaches us, "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted," and "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God" (Mt 5:4, 9).

In the face of the horrific evil that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School on December 14, 2012, as people of faith we first and foremost turn to God and pray. We pray for those whose lives were robbed from them. As Catholic Bishops, we join together with the President of our Conference, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who on the day of the horrible tragedy expressed his profound solidarity with and prayers for the families, friends, neighbors, and communities whose hearts have been rent by the loss of a child or loved one. No words can capture your suffering. We look to Christ, his words and deeds, and ultimately to his Cross and Resurrection. It is in Jesus that we place our hope.

The Sandy Hook tragedy has caused great anguish for parents and others who attempt to safeguard our children. In addition to the outpouring of prayers and support from around the nation, understandably this tragedy has given rise to discussions about national policies and steps that can be taken to foster a culture that protects the innocent and those most vulnerable among us. It is time for our nation to renew a culture of life in our society.

Sacred Scripture reminds us time and again to "be not afraid." Indeed, we must find within ourselves the faith-filled courage to address the challenges our nation faces, both in our homes and in our national policies. These challenges encompass many areas with various complexities. Here, we offer particular words regarding the issue of the regulation of fire arms, the standards for the entertainment industry, and our service to those with mental health needs.

As religious leaders, we are compelled to call on all Americans, especially elected leaders, to address these issues.With regard to the regulation of fire arms, first, the intent to protect one's loved ones is an honorable one, but simply put, guns are too easily accessible. The Vatican's Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, in their document, "The International Arms Trade (2006)," emphasized the importance of enacting concrete controls on handguns, for example, noting that "limiting the purchase of such arms would certainly not infringe on the rights of anyone."

Secondly, our entertainers, especially film producers and video game creators, need to realize how their profit motives have allowed the proliferation of movies, television programs, video games and other entertainment that glorify violence and prey on the insecurities and immaturity of our young people. Such portrayals of violence have desensitized all of us. The massacre of twenty little children and seven adults causes each of us to reflect on our own understanding of the value of human life. We must improve our resources for parents, guardians and young people, so that they can evaluate entertainment products intelligently. We need to admit that the viewing and use of these products has negative emotional, psychological and spiritual effects on people.We must also reflect on our own fears as we grapple with our prejudices toward those with mental health needs. Our society must provide health services and support to those who have mental illnesses and to their families and caregivers. As a community we need to support one another so no one feels unable to get help for a mentally ill family member or neighbor in need. Burdensome healthcare policies must be adjusted so people can get help for themselves or others in need. Just as we properly reach out to those with physical challenges we need to approach mental health concerns with equal sensitivity. There is no shame in seeking help for oneself or others; the only shame is in refusing to provide care and support.

The events in Newtown call us to turn to our Lord in prayer and to witness more profoundly Christ's perfect love, mercy and compassion. We must confront violence with love. There are glimmers of hope in this tragedy. Many people, including some of the victims, made extraordinary efforts to protect life. In particular, the teachers, the principal, the children, the first responders and other leaders showed tremendous courage during the tragedy. Some sacrificed their own lives protecting others.

In their memory and for the sake of our nation, we reiterate our call made in 2000, in our statement, Responsibility, Rehabilitation and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice, for all Americans, especially legislators, to:

1. Support measures that control the sale and use of firearms
2. Support measures that make guns safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children and anyone other than the owner)
3. Call for sensible regulations of handguns
4. Support legislative efforts that seek to protect society from the violence associated with easy access to deadly weapons including assault weapons
5. Make a serious commitment to confront the pervasive role of addiction and mental illness in crime.

As we long for the arrival of the Prince of Peace in this Advent and Christmas season, we call on all people of goodwill to help bring about a culture of life and peace.

With regard to the regulation of fire arms, first, the intent to protect one's loved ones is an honorable one, but simply put, guns are too easily accessible.

'Mumbling woman' pushes man to his death in front of NYC subway trainPolice searched for a woman who killed a man by pushing him in front of a subway train and released surveillance video Friday of her running away from the station.

Commuters, meanwhile, absorbed the news of the second fatal subway shove in the city this month....

Joe,

Here is the full text

....

The Bishops should stick to teaching matters of absolute truth with a focus on salvation rather than publishing personal opinions on matters of prudential judgment.

However, we need to start moving in a more spiritual direction.

I completely agree with the message from the Catholic Bishops. The Church's message should be one that encourages a culture of life and peace among its followers.

In regards of "prudential judgment", it is the responsibility of the Church to express opinions. Especially in matters that effect our daily lives. These are the areas that most effect our spiritual growth. Unfortunately, we have our turned our backs on subjects we just feel conflicts with our personal desires.

The statement loses all credibility with that one sentence...

The statement should address actions -good or bad with intentions as considerations when ascertaining sinfulness of an act

The statement intentionally...

The statement intentionally and erroneously conflates intent with an inanimate object.

The statement implies good action with good intent as simply 'honorable' (that which is actually a grave duty)...

...while implying an inanimate object is the cause of bad intent.

eg, buying one's wife some lovely red roses for no particular reason

I completely agree with the message from the Catholic Bishops. The Church's message should be one that encourages a culture of life and peace among its followers.

In regards of "prudential judgment", it is the responsibility of the Church to express opinions. Especially in matters that effect our daily lives. These are the areas that most effect our spiritual growth. Unfortunately, we have our turned our backs on subjects we just feel conflicts with our personal desires.

One area they mention, is the level of violence that is acceptable. It is true that movies and other media are a big influence. However, all of these seem to be welcomed within a Christian household. We have no problem watching the sex and senseless violence. The worse part is many of us watch this as a family. The propagation of these poor spiritual values are evident with how openly people have become with using profanity and our insistence of carrying on with our lives in the manner we wish.

We are than perplexed when these events play out within our society. Of course we are than quick to blame others because we cannot possibly have any fault in these outcomes. No single proposal is going to resolve our problems as a society. However, we need to start moving in a more spiritual direction.

I completely agree with the message from the Catholic Bishops. The Church's message should be one that encourages a culture of life and peace among its followers.

In regards of "prudential judgment", it is the responsibility of the Church to express opinions. Especially in matters that effect our daily lives. These are the areas that most effect our spiritual growth. Unfortunately, we have our turned our backs on subjects we just feel conflicts with our personal desires. ....

I happen to know of one priest who is in the process of acquiring a concealed carry permit to protect his congregation and I suspect there are others around the country as well.

Bob C,

Perhaps so. But it is logically possible to buy flowers for someone for no particular reason (eg, well, they were there and were on special and I thought "why not?").

In any case, my point was simply that not every good action with good intent is a duty.

Bob A,



Interesting. It was my understanding a clerk in orders is forbidden to bear arms.

Bob C,

There exists no moral duty to purchase flowers for anyone.

Bob A,



Interesting. It was my understanding a clerk in orders is forbidden to bear arms.

Pease note: I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the statement issued by the three American bishops, nor do I understand its canonical or juridicial force; I simply find your analysis of that particular sentence disappointing.

I'm sure there are priests who belong to target shooting clubs for the sport.

Is a military chaplain forbidden to bear arms?

Daniel,

Notwithstanding your clumsy ad hominem, you still fail to explain what it is about the American bishops' statement you happen to disagree with, or in what way they have failed in the application of Catholic teaching.

All US combat Chaplains are assigned, Chaplain assistants whose jobs are to assist them in all things but especially to keep them alive. They are most definitely armed.

What about the chaplains?

Not in my experience, but I do not know if that is by choice. Remember it used to be Medics were never armed but that is no longer true.

It's possible that the military does not arm chaplains in order to protect them; sounds contrary but a non-combatant I believe is subject to somewhat different treatment than a combatant, possibly under the Geneva Convention.

A study has found Australians now own as many guns as they did at the time of the Port Arthur shootings in 1996.

More than one million guns were destroyed in the aftermath of the massacre, but research shows Australians have restocked over the last 10 years, importing more than one million firearms.

Despite that, the number of gun-related deaths have halved since the gun buyback.

SWANN: The U.S., despite being number one in gun ownership, is number 28 in gun homicides, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people. Of course, Piers Morgan isn't calling for the U.S. to be more like El Salvador and Honduras; he's calling for us to be more like Great Britain. So what do the numbers look like there?

The U.K. has the second highest overall crime rate in the E.U. The U.K. has the fifth highest robbery rate, the fourth highest burglary rate. But more importantly, the E.U. named Britain as the most violent country in the E.U. In the U.K., there are 2,034 per 100,000 people. That puts it way ahead of even South Africa with a rate of 1,609 per 100,000 people. In the United States, we're not even in the top 10. The U.S. has a violent crime rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents.