Catholic Online Forum

I thought he was a Catholic? Not that this means much these days:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/?hpt=hp_t4

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Andrew McAllister

Respect for the dignity of every innocent human being from conception/fertilization, without exception, without compromise, without apology.

Andrew,

He was born and brought up Hindu, converted to Christianity in high school, and then received into the Catholic Church while at university. As far as I know, he and his family still attend Mass regularly.

He is in favour of emergency "contraception" (abortifacient! - what the heck, just about all contraceptive pills these days are abortifacients) in cases of rape.

Apart from that single logic-defying lapse, he seems sound on issues of sexual and reproductive morality.

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

Apart from not being obedient he is obedient?

In my opinion, he loses any claim to be Catholic with this action (assuming it true). His actions are what count.

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

Hinduism has a lot of practical wisdom on how to live ones life.
Converting to the catholic faith means learning about the Presence of God in our lives.
It is not so easy as it looks.
Most converts to the catholic faith in India were not those acquainted with Hindu Scripture.
My perception is that even today learning the Catholic Faith in India is more difficult than if one were in a western country
Some practices of Hinduism often remain in catholic converts-like applying black powder on the face of babies and wearing black bangles and belief in evil eye.The caste system still exists

Learning the catholic faith to me requires generations unless one does devotes a lot of time

Gentle correction to Booby Jindal would be the best thing >Please make allowances for gaps in his Faith

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Simon

Thats very well put.But commonplace at least here in India

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Simon

Actually, one of the first things I thought, when the one college of doctors suggested having BCP go OTC was, "Well at least we wouldn't have to pay for them, then." I see that this is part of Gov. Jindal's comments.

Insurance doesn't pay for over the counter meds, and I would guess that BCPs would at least be actually behind the counter so that a person would need to provide ID before purchasing them, sort of like medications containing chemicals that can be turned into methamphetamine.

Not that I think it's a good idea. I think it's a very bad idea in a perfect world. But as bad as things are in this world in regard to this medication, I haven't had a chance to think through which way is worse.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

So can I conclude from this thread that you all would support banning oral contraception?

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Jeff Stevens

Certainly, and from the standpoint that it's not safe, over and above the damage it does to people's souls.

Funny thing: When I was at my county-funded general hospital with blood clots, I was asked by every doctor and nurse whether I took BCP. When I said no, every single one of them said, "Good."

This is not a Catholic hospital.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

Rose,

Every drug involves measuring risk against benefit. I know the dangers of oral contraceptives but I also know how dangerous nearly every medication I take is and most more so than oral contraceptives so I don't agree with you there.

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Valerie Garcia
vals1990@yahoo.com

"Listen, O my son, to the precepts of thy master, and incline the ear of thy heart, and cheerfully receive and faithfully execute the admonitions of thy loving Father, that by the toil of obedience thou mayest return to Him ....." St. Benedict

Jeff,



My first thought was that as well though I know many here think condoms should be banned, I don't believe that anything that doesn't induce an abortion should be banned because though our beliefs about marriage and reproduction are based upon natural law and we believe binding on everyone, if we carry that to it's rational conclusion then every religion which believes they have the truth should be able to force everyone else to live according to their values. Some Muslims believe God directly told Mohamed to kill infidels, we believe God doesn't want contraceptives of any kind to be used. Who gets to control public policy based upon what they believe God commands?

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Valerie Garcia
vals1990@yahoo.com

"Listen, O my son, to the precepts of thy master, and incline the ear of thy heart, and cheerfully receive and faithfully execute the admonitions of thy loving Father, that by the toil of obedience thou mayest return to Him ....." St. Benedict

Is it any better or worse than any other contraception? Does taking it orally after getting it OTC make a difference?

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

Obama?

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

I still ponder this; however, I would be all for a perversion tax that would tax a majority of 'safe sex' products; specifically, those marketed to the homosexual sex deviants.

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

That is sort of where I'm going with this. Is a Catholic politician in a position to oppose universal access to such a drug?

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Jeff Stevens

I am against contraception that can induce abortion.

However, in spite of the health risks present with the pill, I consider its availability to be irrelevant.

The problem as I see it is the total LACK of teaching on the evils of contraception.

There should be so many articles and homilies on this topic that people can recite Church teaching in their sleep even if they are not Catholic!

People cannot reject evil if they only hear from the evil one how good it is. People need to hear from many sources in the new Evangelization how BAD it is including LOTS from priests and bishops.

anyway, my $.02 worth

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K. Ann Seeton

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle (but the concept is found in John Paul II's books The Acting Person and Love and Responsibility as well.)

Quicksilver to Gold
http://hg2au.com

So because your risk/benefit ratio comes out in favor of taking certain drugs, and there are fewer risks to birth control pills, you think they should be allowed?

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

Jeff,



Yes. It is my duty as a Catholic.



Yes. It is his duty as a Catholic.

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

Rose,



My point is that there are far more dangerous drugs around and it's up to each individual to choose what is their own level of comfort with the risk/benefit.....it's not about my own personal view, it's based upon the realities of the danger of many drugs and the fact that they're available because the FDA views them as safe enough and useful enough, in terms of efficacy, to offer to people despite the dangers inherent in many of these drugs, including birth control. I'm aware that the initial pills were pushed speedily through the process but they are vastly different from what they were in the beginning though some remain dangerous.

From webmd regarding combination pills:



That figure goes down when considering only women under 35 who don't smoke. The risk increases with age, smoking and obesity. These same pills have medical uses and can reduce the risk of certain cancers. Relatively speaking, these types of pills are simply not that risky. I'm in vastly more danger of developing diabetes from medication but that drug was allowed because of the good it does. Because of obesity and high genetic risks, I chose not to use the pill for medical problems despite being young. Given that the drug is not overall that risky, others have a right to make a different choice based upon their comfort zone. It's true of all FDA approved drugs whether you agree with their approval or not. Others have the right to make that choice

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Valerie Garcia
vals1990@yahoo.com

"Listen, O my son, to the precepts of thy master, and incline the ear of thy heart, and cheerfully receive and faithfully execute the admonitions of thy loving Father, that by the toil of obedience thou mayest return to Him ....." St. Benedict

To the baby whose implantation is thwarted, resulting in his or her death, it is more than dangerous it is lethal.

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K. Ann Seeton

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle (but the concept is found in John Paul II's books The Acting Person and Love and Responsibility as well.)

Quicksilver to Gold
http://hg2au.com

Ann,

...and the baby has no say in that "choice".

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

From The Times Picayune, Greater New Orleans



http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... ption.html

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

Mr. Jindal draws a "correction:"

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/go ... 2012-12-17

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Andrew McAllister

Respect for the dignity of every innocent human being from conception/fertilization, without exception, without compromise, without apology.

OBVIOUSLY

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K. Ann Seeton

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle (but the concept is found in John Paul II's books The Acting Person and Love and Responsibility as well.)

Quicksilver to Gold
http://hg2au.com

I do not think any mention has been made in this thread of judging a drug on how it helps someone's body return to natural functioning ...

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Kent Wendler

That will never happen. Not all religions see oral contraception as evil or immoral. However, by making them over the counter, wouldn't that eliminate the need for Catholic institutions to pay for them or insurances to cover them? I don't get an insurance break on aspirin.

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Kevin

"Take the man's hand or I'll read your name in the Mass on Sunday." - Father Lonergan, The Quiet Man

Good question.

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David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

Jeff,

I really need to find the reference, but I believe either St. Thomas or St. Augustine wrote that it is permissible for those in authority to tolerate certain societal evils if the effort to eliminate them would cause even greater evils. Would the banning of contraceptives, particularly those that are not abortifacient (I agree that abortifacients should be universally banned), result in greater evils? No pun intended, but it is conceivable to me that it would.

And perhaps as the previous poster stated Jindal is taking a backdoor approach to undermining the HHS mandate by making the contraceptive otc and cheap and therefore not under the coverage of any health insurance plan. Perhaps Jindal's real concern is to enable Catholics (and others so inclined) to refrain entirely from funding another's "reproductive health" choice.

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Dean
Most people's sense of history goes back to breakfast time - Benjamin Netanyahu

Good points. It is better to be free of having to pay for an evil myself. And considering the Pill is being passed out behind the backs of parents in many places anyway, it might as well be over-the-counter.

Then again, there are serious health risks to the Pill and a doctor should spot those, but in practice does any doctor every tell a person who ought to avoid the pill NOT to take it? I haven't even been able to convince mine to stop offering it to me!

I think that the lesser evil might just be to put it over the counter and take it off of insurance.

If we don't want our kids using it, then we need to teach them better so they choose not do use. Same as other drugs and other behaviors.

Ann Seeton

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K. Ann Seeton

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle (but the concept is found in John Paul II's books The Acting Person and Love and Responsibility as well.)

Quicksilver to Gold
http://hg2au.com

Now that the College of OB/GYNs has divorced birth control from annual exams, there's no reason to require a prescription. No one is even counselling these girls on the dangers they will face, both physical and emotional, once they go down this path.

Interestingly enough, when I was in the hospital with pulmonary embolisms that we still don't know the source of, every doctor and nurse who attended to me asked me if I took birth control pills. I said no, and every doctor and nurse nodded and said, "Good." I still don't know what to make of that. It's as if there's a giant rift in the medical profession, and women, with all the "freedoms" we've supposedly been given, are still getting the shabby end of the stick.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

That is because one side effect of the pill is blood clots, so if you were having them in your lungs and been on the pill they would likely have been WORSE.

God made a delicately balanced female hormonal system-- and being that this system is part of nature-- how forgiving is nature going to be of having that which God balanced put into an abnormal state and kept there?

The pill has nasty and long term side effects-- just read the papers that come in the box!

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K. Ann Seeton

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle (but the concept is found in John Paul II's books The Acting Person and Love and Responsibility as well.)

Quicksilver to Gold
http://hg2au.com

Which is why, if Obama and his ilk were really concerned about women's health, they would move to ban the contraceptive pill and fund fertility monitors and strips for all. But that would entail men and women exercising some responsibility of their own regarding when and with whom they have intercourse. And we can't have restrictions on sexual "freedom."

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Dean
Most people's sense of history goes back to breakfast time - Benjamin Netanyahu

Yeah, I know that. It was just kind of weird, the way they all said good, as though they didn't think anyone should take those pills.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

I'm blessed to have a doctor whose practice is in full accord with Catholic bioethical / moral principlesand who only deals in NFP with his patients. The 2 other doctors in the practice are in full accord as well. Unfortunately I have to travel over 35 miles one-way to see him, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make in order to support his practice.

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Dean
Most people's sense of history goes back to breakfast time - Benjamin Netanyahu