Catholic Online Forum

_________________
David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

Is that actually somewhere on the White House website pulldown menu?

"Tours"
"Contact Us"
"File for Secession"
"Shop our online store"

_________________
Rob

First I'm hearing of it.

_________________
Bob C

Actually, David, the title (I assume?) you picked for this thread is a bit misleading.

There is quite a difference between private citizens submitting petitions for secession and state governments actually doing it.

Almost 152 years ago, it was the latter occurrence that ripped this country asunder for four years. See War Between the State/War of Northern Aggression (depending on your perspective)

I hope I'm not wrong in believing that a few thousand signatures on petitions gathered in 21 states won't lead to a recurrence of that sad event in our history.

_________________
In Christ,

Jim B

I will consider your position if stated with firm, well-thought-out, quiet reasoning. Hateful diatribe, ad hominem attacks and shouted rhetoric don't impress.

I agree, though I do hope it sends a message and that message is considered by the White House. We are not all pleased with the state of this country and the direction in which it is headed.

_________________
BobA

Jim,

You caught me, and I can't blame anyone else for the title.

_________________
David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

Jim,



You ain't just whistlin' Dixie.

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

Ironically, James, the song "Dixie", so closely identified with the Confederacy, was penned by a yankee!

_________________
In Christ,

Jim B

I will consider your position if stated with firm, well-thought-out, quiet reasoning. Hateful diatribe, ad hominem attacks and shouted rhetoric don't impress.

I don't think he cares what anyone thinks.

_________________
Bob C

You are quite correct.

_________________
Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

Now he has the flexibility to not care.

Texas is way over the required number of 25,000 signatures to get a response although I kind of doubt they will get any sort of acknowledgment from the White House.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... t/BmdWCP8B

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

I was gonna say....

Why petition the White House for it? Why not Congress or the Courts? Whey not the State government?

Is the White House the authority to grant this petition? Do you think Obama would grant it?

_________________
Pax et bonum,
Marie

JMJ

I don't think any branch of the government would grant it. Petitioning the US Government for secession is just nonsensical. If serious, the state should just issue a declaration of independence, and be prepared to defend their borders.

_________________
David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

That didn't work out very well the first time . . .

_________________
In Christ,

Jim B

I will consider your position if stated with firm, well-thought-out, quiet reasoning. Hateful diatribe, ad hominem attacks and shouted rhetoric don't impress.

While states cannot secede, I recall hearing that when Texas entered the Union it reserved the right to subdivide itself into up to five separate states. Wonder if that right still exists? Eight more senators and eight more electoral votes would be interesting.

_________________
- Joe Kelley

Death is only a shadow across the path to Heaven.

_________________
In Christ,

Jim B

I will consider your position if stated with firm, well-thought-out, quiet reasoning. Hateful diatribe, ad hominem attacks and shouted rhetoric don't impress.

Maybe Texans should ask how Singapore did it. Singapore seceded from the Federation of Malaysia in early 1960's and became more successful than the mother country. Let's ask Ian.

BTW. how is the Scotland statehood movement coming along?

_________________
Pax et bonum,
Marie

JMJ

Marie,



They'll be having a referendum on it in 2014.

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

_________________
David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

David,



Houston, we have a problem.

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

As I pointed out on another forum, these "petitions" are about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

_________________
Edward C. (aka Zoom)

The Most High hath created medicines out of the earth, and a wise man will not abhor them. Sirach 38:4

JMJ

Add Nebraska to the list....saw an item on local news.

_________________
Peace.. Mary Jo
They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles (Isiah 40:32)

As of yesterday there are petitions for all 50 states.

http://politics.gather.com/viewArticle. ... 4981757227

_________________
Edward C. (aka Zoom)

The Most High hath created medicines out of the earth, and a wise man will not abhor them. Sirach 38:4

Insofar as, according to the White House's own website, seven of those petitions have gained enough signatures to obtain a proper response, this may be productive.

It's unlikely, however, that any state will actually leave the union.

_________________
Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

Yes, they can do wonders with PhotoShop.

_________________
Dean
Most people's sense of history goes back to breakfast time - Benjamin Netanyahu

Wow, over 750,000 signers! The Obama vengeance squads (IRS, FBI, SS) will have to work overtime.

_________________
BobA

Barack I Emperor of all the States could not give a smelly Petunia what we think.

_________________
Bob C

That may seal the doom of the Dem Devil Debacle.

_________________
BobA

I say let them all secede, individually.

_________________
David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

The USSA is coming.

_________________
Pax et Bonum


Schultzz

_________________
David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/84058.html#ixzz2CigwgRqj

_________________
David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

David,



The 13 colonies did not secede (or even secdee) from England. To do so they would have had to be part of England; they never were. The US was not born in secession, but in revolution.

(I could be really provocative and say the US was born in rebellion, but let's not go there.)

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

God is the authority.

The federal government does not grant freedom and rights; especially the freedom and inalienable rights specifically detailed in the Constitution -the rights that the federal government is tasked with protecting.

The federal government increasingly chooses to subvert and not uphold the laws of the land -- this, while at the same time becoming the increasingly tyrannical offender of individual freedom and liberty as the self declared mandated champion of a collective mob of morally bankrupt special interests.

_________________
Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

Marie,



I wasn't ignoring you, just waiting for someone else to chime in.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

Thanks, James, for this bit of Southeast Asian history.



I didn't know there were race riots. So instead of seceding, Singapore was expelled? Can you imagine what Texas and all those other states can do?



I know. My sister was there on that date and had seriously considered giving up her Philippine passport for a Singaporean citizenship. But she didn't.

_________________
Pax et bonum,
Marie

JMJ

What did she think about that decision when she got older?

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

Marie and all,

My apologies for not seeing this and replying. It is true, we were roundly kicked on our behinds and booted out of the Federation. The folks up north agitated the riots that killed hundreds of people here. They were furious that we fought for equal rights for all citizens and were against priority treatment for any one race or religion which the Malaysian government championed for the Malays and Islam under their Bumiputra scheme-- their version of apartheid that is still in force today.

With no natural resources, Singapore were considered a basket case that nobody gave a chance to survive. No country in the British Commonwealth or elsewhere were willing to help us, apart from wishing us well, and that is why many turned down the chance for a Singapore citizenship. We were expected to go broke within a few months and go on our knees to beg Malaysia to take us back. But when a people have their backs against the wall, funny things happen to spur them on to rise above themselves to fight for their dignity and we had only Israel in our hour of need stand by us to give us advice and their expertise on survival. We have always been grateful to Yitzhak Rabin who contributed much to this end.

That, in a nutshell, is our story.

_________________
Ian DC
Blessed Ever Virgin Mary -- Sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe

Well, that is really interesting.

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

Sorry, not hundreds died, but scores. My bad.

_________________
Ian DC
Blessed Ever Virgin Mary -- Sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe

Grace,
At first she regretted not taking Sigaporean citizenship (she loved the food ) and she stayed for a while until Premier Lee Kuan Yew purged out all foreign journalists in the country. (My sister was working for a travel publication there.) Very quickly she applied for a visa to the US. And now she is in Chicago, married to an Italian, and couldn't be happier.

_________________
Pax et bonum,
Marie

JMJ

Ian,
Do you think what happened to Singapore would work in Texas or any of the other states who wanted out of the US? I know you're probably not too concerned about things in the US, but just for fun, would you speculate?

_________________
Pax et bonum,
Marie

JMJ

Marie,

There was never any purge of foreign journalists by LKY. Many western journalists were shocked that an Asian leader dared to stand up to them. In Asia, we were expected to fall in line when these media hounds pushed their own agendas in telling us how we should run our country. He was tough on them, demanded a right of reply when they levelled accusations that were way off base. When they refused to print his reply, he sued them and they ran away. LKY can be accused of many things, but one thing he was admired for here was his refusal to allow western journalists to dictate how we ran our house.

If Singapore ever did acquiesce to the demands of western powers, we would never be where we are today.

_________________
Ian DC
Blessed Ever Virgin Mary -- Sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe

Marie,

I am concerned with what happens in the United States, as anyone in the free world would. There is no denying the US influences trends around the world, and when an economic and military superpower sneezes the world catches a flu. When Obama pushes his anti-life agenda, there is a danger it will catch on globally. In the run-up to the elections, I had my share of debates with my younger colleagues, Obama supporters as they were, to broaden their horizons and advised them not to be influenced by the the mostly bias liberal US press and international agency feeds we were getting. Hopefully, it went some way to help them because they are the future of the public voice here.

That said, what happened to Singapore in the 1960s was unique to our circumstances. We were and are largely an immigrant society, mostly from China in the pre-communist days, and the Chinese during that period went through challenging times and were a hardy people. We were then also a poverty-stricken society, the Philippines far advanced economically and the rest of South-east Asia well ahead of us. Even Sri Lanka were far wealthier.

The present circumstances in Texas and the rest of the US are different. The problems are faith and morals, but even in an economic crisis, the nation has the resources to survive. But like Singapore, I believe the greatest resource the US has is its people, and those who stand by their God-given rights can end up victorious if their faith in God drives them to never give up.

_________________
Ian DC
Blessed Ever Virgin Mary -- Sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe

Do you mean, if the Texans acted really badly and got themselves expelled?

Personally I think that everybody who signed such a petition should have their citizenship revoked. That would be one way of granting their wish.

_________________
David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

Ian,

Lee Kuan Yew once referred to Australians as "the white trash of Asia".

Once during the Whitlam era Lee was late for a CHOGM. Very late. The other heads were becoming concerned. Gough said "Don't worry, he'll be here. He'd never miss a CHOGM - it's the closest he ever gets to democracy".

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

And your point is?

James,

I don't know if you have ever lived or been to Singapore, but I certainly would not apologise for how this country was run, and is still run. And I would chastise any Singaporean who did.

I lived through that dark period in Singapore's history and my brothers and I were almost made orphans at a tender age. Only God's grace prevented that from happening. This country, thanks to the Brits, was a sewer, average wages were a laugh and there were hoodlums, the communists, the triads and their lackeys at every corner. No weak leader would have been able to clean this place up.

It's nice to take pot shots at a country from the comfort of a safe distance, but many of our critics don't know their noses from their bottoms. They don't know what it is like to live between two large Muslim countries, forever taking pot shots and threatening us. They are ignorant of our politics, only theirs was supposed to be superior, but look where they are now!

But today the very people who wanted to drag us into the mud, are rushing to work or settle down here. Why? Because their families will be safe, walking in the streets alone at 3am in the morning here is safer than strolling in crowded Sydney in mid-afternoon ... because taxes are among the lowest in the world and because their kids can also get a good education here. But I am blowing my country's horn.

This country has been overcrowded a long time ago that it became a hot-button issue in last year's elections. More than one-fifth of the 5 million people here are foreigners and the infrastructure is at bursting point. No democracy? Ask them. There were 12,000 Australians living here four years ago and more are running here and today we have close to 50,000. Nice chaps, I say, but we've become the No1 destination for you guys to settle permanently, ask Nathan Tinkler, he's got a penthouse pad somewhere in town.

We are trying to stop the tide of foreigners from coming from all corners of the globe, they've got to realise there is only 700 square kilometres of space here and our "friendly" Muslim neighbours won't let us reclaim any more land ... something about the law of the sea, go figure.

_________________
Ian DC
Blessed Ever Virgin Mary -- Sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe

And James, let's put the "White trash" remark in perspective.

When LKY made that remark in 1980, it was in reply to a question by an Australian journalist about what he thought about the state of the economy of the country. Australia's focus was not on Asia, in terms of trade and almost everything, and the country's relations were conducted mainly with the old country in Europe and the US. He did not call Australia "white trash" but asserted that if Australia's course remain unchanged, it would end up that way. Today, Australia is focusing more on Asia ... and we wonder why.

In Bob Hawke's words from Cabinet papers stored in Australian archives:


On our PM's visit to Australia recently, the subject came up again:

_________________
Ian DC
Blessed Ever Virgin Mary -- Sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe

Ian,
Plus...LKY didn't like their Beatles hair cuts?

_________________
Pax et bonum,
Marie

JMJ

David,
And all the other states who want to secede. That would make quite a splash!




That's the other side's (the Obama supporters') suggestion. But I don't think that'll work. Think everyone who loses his citizenship becomes an alien (an illegal?) living in U.S. territory.

_________________
Pax et bonum,
Marie

JMJ