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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 03:26 
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I wondered when hearing this read at Sunday Mass ? Wouldthe hired man have stayed with the sheep if he were worried about the pay he was to receive ? i.e He was on a contract to care for the sheep but when thewolf came to the door he worried aboiut saving himself rather than earning his pay .He did not know if the wolf would also attack him but possibly as aolves are cousins of our domestic dogs they would not normally attack humans.

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 03:32 
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Correction .......as wolves are... The exception to this case are the very human Wolves representing the City of Wolverhampton who cannot succeed in attacking much at present.

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 04:31 
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Acts 4:8-12; I Jn. 3:1-2; Jn. 10:11-18

THEME: JESUS IS THE GOOD SHEPHERD!

Once a wealthy parishioner invited a priest and his sacristan for a dinner with other friends. Before dinner the august audience sang solos and played musical instruments. Later they all insisted the priest to sing a song. The priest, an accomplished singer himself, sang “The Lord is my Shepherd” with exquisite expression. The applause was loud and long. Finally, it was the turn of the poor sacristan. “I’m illiterate!” said he, “I can only say the same psalm that Father taught me!” After sometime the sacristan closed his eyes, bowed his head and began, “The Lord is my shepherd…” So sublime and spiritual was the sacristan’s rendition that all the guests were moved to tears. Holding his tears back the priest whispered, “I know the song, you know the Shepherd!”

Today is a special Sunday in Eastertide titled, ‘The Good Shepherd Sunday.’ Jesus is our Good Shepherd and he invites all of us to be like him – to be good shepherds! In the first reading (Acts 4:8-12) – Peter, the First Shepherd filled with the Holy Spirit, fearlessly witnesses to the Lord’s crucifixion and resurrection. He makes this declaration that the crippled beggar was healed “by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth” (Acts 4:10), that “Jesus is the stone that was rejected…has become the cornerstone” (Acts 4:11) and Jesus is the Saviour of all, “There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Once again, in the second reading (I Jn. 3:1-2), John, the Beloved Shepherd of Jesus, proclaims the greatness of God’s love for us, “See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and that is what we are” (I Jn. 3:1). This is why God sent his only son into this world. When we truly live like God’s children in this world, John says, “when he is revealed, we will be like him, for we will see him as he is” (I Jn. 3:2).

In the Gospel reading (Jn. 10:11-18) we come across a beautiful image of the Good Shepherd – Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus says, “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep” (Jn. 10:11). “… And I lay down my life for the sheep” (Jn. 10:15). Jesus appropriates this image in speaking of his Messianic role. As the Good Shepherd, Jesus knows and relates with his flock in a very personal way. He calls his own sheep and leads them to green pastures. He bestows the fullness of life to his flock by laying down his own very life for his flock. Jesus says, “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father” (Jn. 10:14-15). This is to say, as his faithful sheep we are enjoined to recognise the voice of our shepherd and to follow him as he leads us to fullness of life. Archbishop Oscar Romero once said beautifully, “If we truly live like Jesus, we will all have the same fate like Jesus; and if we do not have the same fate like Jesus, it is a clear sign that we are not truly living like Jesus.”

The church celebrates today, ‘The World Day of Prayer for Vocations.’ There is a specific need of many more young women and men who will totally devote their time, talents and energies to be good leaders. The Lord says, “I will give you shepherds after my own heart…” (Jer. 3:15). Hence, let us pray for Christlike shepherds, like Peter, John, Archbishop Oscar Romero and others who know their true Shepherd and who are filled with the Holy Spirit can proclaim Christ boldly and lead everyone to Him.

Prayer: Lord Jesus Christ, you are my Good Shepherd. I love you and I want to be with you. With you I have everything that I need. Thank you Lord Jesus, I praise you and I adore you. Amen.





Fr Cantalamessa on theGood Shepherd

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 08:40 
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johnjoejoyce wrote:
...as wolves are cousins of our domestic dogs they would not normally attack humans.


Seriously? Where I live we hear about dogs attacking people probably once a month.

Meanwhile, I think we can trust Our Lord to know his metaphors and the time/place where He used them better than we can trust ourselves to second-guess Him.

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 09:31 
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johnjoejoyce wrote:
I wondered when hearing this read at Sunday Mass ? Wouldthe hired man have stayed with the sheep if he were worried about the pay he was to receive ? i.e He was on a contract to care for the sheep but when thewolf came to the door he worried aboiut saving himself rather than earning his pay .He did not know if the wolf would also attack him but possibly as aolves are cousins of our domestic dogs they would not normally attack humans.

John,

I think that parable is pretty clearly in support of Capitalism and private property.

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 09:33 
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LASaxman wrote:
I think that parable is pretty clearly in support of Capitalism and private property.


How so?

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 09:54 
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Rose West wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
I think that parable is pretty clearly in support of Capitalism and private property.


How so?

Because it extols the property owner (the shepherd) and diminishes the worker (the hired man).

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 10:39 
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johnjoejoyce wrote:
..... but possibly as aolves are cousins of our domestic dogs they would not normally attack humans.
Great theory, but I will leave the experiment to someone else to try. :wink:

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 10:43 
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LASaxman wrote:
Rose West wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
I think that parable is pretty clearly in support of Capitalism and private property.


How so?

Because it extols the property owner (the shepherd) and diminishes the worker (the hired man).


Actually, in my opinion --this, at a minimum, extols God, faith, and the 'hired' shepherd .

Maybe you are being facetious? Maybe you are too hung up in the material, possibly ignoring the relationship to God in all things, and possibly are blinded by the propaganda from the progressive left?

Regardless, in my opinion, there are probably several ways to interpret this; however, I would suggest all involve Him unless we are talking 'communism'.

For instance, if the property owner represents faith in God; the shepherd (worker) one pledged, committed and obedient in faith that takes up the cross... Then surely the shepherd must possibly sacrifice for the sheep he has under his watch.

Let me add that the true reward is not the 'pay' (material) but eternal life (spiritual).

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 11:02 
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gabriel wrote:
johnjoejoyce wrote:
..... but possibly as aolves are cousins of our domestic dogs they would not normally attack humans.
Great theory, but I will leave the experiment to someone else to try. :wink:


My Polish Grandmother told some stories, not sure how true, of some frightful encounters with wolves in the old country.

Wolves are pack hunters and would have no fear of attacking a human if hungry or prompted by fear or territorial defence; there is also a lot of evidence of domestic dogs going wild in packs and attacking humans.

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 11:30 
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dlm wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
Rose West wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
I think that parable is pretty clearly in support of Capitalism and private property.


How so?

Because it extols the property owner (the shepherd) and diminishes the worker (the hired man).


Actually, in my opinion --this, at a minimum, extols God, faith, and the 'hired' shepherd .
...
Regardless, in my opinion, there are probably several ways to interpret this; however, I would suggest all involve Him unless we are talking 'communism'.

Daniel,

No mention was made of communism by anyone except you.

There are certainly many ways to interpret it, and it is clearly intended as a metaphor where Jesus is the good shepherd. But more than one valid interpretation can coexist, and may have been intended.

However, the "good shepherd", in the literal sense, is the owner of the sheep, not the hired man. That is made clear in the second sentence. If anything, the hired man is a "bad shepherd" who fails his responsibility and runs away.

John 10:11-18 wrote:
Jesus said:
"I am the good shepherd.
A good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
A hired man, who is not a shepherd
and whose sheep are not his own,
sees a wolf coming and leaves the sheep and runs away,
and the wolf catches and scatters them.
This is because he works for pay and has no concern for the sheep.
I am the good shepherd,
and I know mine and mine know me,
just as the Father knows me and I know the Father;
and I will lay down my life for the sheep.
I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold.
These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice,
and there will be one flock, one shepherd.
This is why the Father loves me,
because I lay down my life in order to take it up again.
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own.
I have power to lay it down, and power to take it up again.
This command I have received from my Father."

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 13:00 
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LASaxman wrote:
No mention was made of communism by anyone except you.


If it quacks like a duck...

I would contend that economic arguments premised upon worker victimhood that as well omits God is by its very essence Communist.

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 13:18 
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dlm wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
No mention was made of communism by anyone except you.


If it quacks like a duck...

I would contend that economic arguments premised upon worker victimhood that as well omits God is by its very essence Communist.

Daniel, what the heck are you talking about???????

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 13:32 
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LASaxman wrote:
dlm wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
No mention was made of communism by anyone except you.


If it quacks like a duck...

I would contend that economic arguments premised upon worker victimhood that as well omits God is by its very essence Communist.

Daniel, what the heck are you talking about???????


You expect me to know?

:wink:

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 13:41 
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LASaxman wrote:
Rose West wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
I think that parable is pretty clearly in support of Capitalism and private property.


How so?

Because it extols the property owner (the shepherd) and diminishes the worker (the hired man).


Is the shepherd necessarily the property owner?

I think it actually shows pretty good insight into human nature. For the hired man, watching the sheep is just a job, and no job is worth losing life or limb. The shepherd really loves the sheep, whether they're his or not. They're not just a job to him, and he's going to risk life and limb, making sacrifices in order to keep the sheep from running into trouble.

If you read Elizabeth's recent thread about homeschooling, you would have noticed that she extols the virtues of a teacher who's helped her. This teacher looks beyond the "job" aspects of what she does, choosing to foster education, since she's helping Elizabeth educate a child who will never be in her own classroom. I think it's a similar thing.

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 16:50 
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Rose West wrote:
Is the shepherd necessarily the property owner?


Quote:
A good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
A hired man, who is not a shepherd
and whose sheep are not his own...

That seems clear to me. There are two people mentioned, one of whom owns the sheep. The sheep belong to the shepherd rather than the hired man.

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 17:41 
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How does that say the shepherd owns the sheep, since we're being pedantic?

The sheep belong to the shepherd in the sense that he has a sense of them belonging to him, but the online dictionary says the shepherd is hired to care for the sheep.

Meanwhile, Jesus,as the good shepherd, cares for us to the point of risking his life.

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 19:22 
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Rose West wrote:
How does that say the shepherd owns the sheep, since we're being pedantic?


It is evident that BOTH are considered shepherds in relation to the sheep regardless their relationship to each other (a relationship which I contend could be interpreted several ways e.g. God to Priest or God to any member of the Church etcetera).

As to the designation of the 'good' shepherd versus the 'bad' shepherd -this designation, is premised upon the relationship of the shepherd in regard to the sheep.

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 20:36 
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According to the Navarre commentary, the sheep = the sheepfold = the Church, and the hired shepherd = the kings, priests, elders, pastors that don't take good care of the sheep.

It cross references Ezekiel 34 which is all about shepherd imagery.

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PostPosted: 01 May 2012 22:43 
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Rose West wrote:
How does that say the shepherd owns the sheep, since we're being pedantic?

Pedantic? :roll:

It is implied in contrasting the good shepherd with the hired man "who is not a shepherd and whose sheep are not his own."

Also a little later it says, "I am the good shepherd, and I know mine..." again implying ownership.

Of course, these points are only a concern when considering the literal meaning.

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PostPosted: 02 May 2012 03:49 
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LASaxman wrote:
Rose West wrote:
How does that say the shepherd owns the sheep, since we're being pedantic?

Pedantic? :roll:

It is implied in contrasting the good shepherd with the hired man "who is not a shepherd and whose sheep are not his own."

Also a little later it says, "I am the good shepherd, and I know mine..." again implying ownership.

Of course, these points are only a concern when considering the literal meaning.


I read that, and I see at least three people, the owner, the shepherd, who according to literal definitions is hired to care for the sheep, and the man who's just "the hired man."

When reading Our Lord's explanation, we see that the Good Shepherd takes on the sheep with a feeling of belonging. Anyone who's been a really good employee or known a really good employee understands the concept that maybe you don't own whatever it is, but you work as if you do. I'm not sure that's a metaphor for capitalism so much as a metaphor for being conscientious.

Bishops, who carry a shepherd's crook, are called upon to take the same sort of role. They don't own us, but we're the flocks under their care.

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PostPosted: 02 May 2012 15:30 
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Rose,

Quote:
Bishops, who carry a shepherd's crook...


I'd very much dispute that.

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PostPosted: 02 May 2012 16:30 
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Rose West wrote:
I read that, and I see at least three people, the owner, the shepherd, who according to literal definitions is hired to care for the sheep, and the man who's just "the hired man."

Where do you see a third person mentioned who is the owner?

As to definitions, I believe anyone who herds sheep is a shepherd, regardless of whether he or she is the owner, a hired hand or a volunteer.

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PostPosted: 02 May 2012 16:39 
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LASaxman wrote:
Rose West wrote:
I read that, and I see at least three people, the owner, the shepherd, who according to literal definitions is hired to care for the sheep, and the man who's just "the hired man."

Where do you see a third person mentioned who is the owner?

As to definitions, I believe anyone who herds sheep is a shepherd, regardless of whether he or she is the owner, a hired hand or a volunteer.


The hired hand is not the shepherd, and he's not the person who owns the sheep. That's three people.

I'm still fascinated by the fact that you must somehow see Jesus as the consummate capitalist, then?

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