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PostPosted: 27 Apr 2005 10:14 
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Don Bosco's Prophecy of the Two Columns

-excerpts:

Quote:
Most of the prophecies associated with Don Bosco came to him during dreams, but just as in Matthew's Gospel where the process of Joseph being instructed by angels during dreams is described it is clear that Don Bosco's experiences were more than the sort of dreams most of us have when asleep.

Most of his dreams were concerned with the direction both he and his order, the Salesians, were to take in the future, and in particular with the boys who lived at his oratory in Turin. He would often speak to them just before they went to bed, sometimes predicting that one of their number would die within a certain period, but without indicating which.


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On 30 May 1862 Don Bosco at his 'Good Night' talk told his boys, and the young clerics he was training, about a dream he had dreamt a few nights previously: he actually described it as a parable or allegory. Strictly speaking a parable is a general story with a deeper meaning, but one in which the points of the story may not all be significant, while in an allegory every detail is important and meaningful. In the case of Don Bosco's dream it is difficult to know just how significant each point is. After some preliminary remarks he went on to describe what he had seen:

"Try to picture yourselves with me on the seashore, or, better still, on an outlying cliff with no other land in sight. The vast expanse of water is covered with a formidable array of ships in battle formation, prows fitted with sharp spear-like beaks capable of breaking through any defence. All are heavily armed with cannons, incendiary bombs, and firearms of all sorts - even books - and are heading toward one stately ship, mightier than them all. As they try to close in, they try to ram it, set it afire, and cripple it as much as possible.

"This stately vessel is shielded by a flotilla escort. Winds and waves are with the enemy. In this midst of this endless sea, two solid columns, a short distance apart, soar high into the sky: one is surmounted by a statue of the Immaculate Virgin at whose feet a large inscription reads: Help of Christians; the other, far loftier and sturdier, supports a [Communion] Host of proportionate size and bears beneath it the inscription Salvation of believers.

"The flagship commander - the Roman Pontiff [the Pope]- seeing the enemy's fury and his auxiliary ships very grave predicament, summons his captains to a conference. However, as they discuss their strategy, a furious storm breaks out and they must return to their ships. When the storm abates, the Pope again summons his captains as the flagship keeps on its course. But the storm rages again. Standing at the helm, the Pope strains every muscle to steer his ship between the two columns from whose summits hang many anchors and strong hooks linked to chains.

"The entire enemy fleet closes in to intercept and sink the flagship at all costs. They bombard it with everything they have: books and pamphlets, incendiary bombs, firearms, cannons. The battle rages ever more furious. Beaked prows ram the flagship again and again, but to no avail, as, unscathed and undaunted, it keeps on its course. At times a formidable ram splinters a gaping hole into its hull, but, immediately, a breeze from the two columns instantly seals the gash.

"Meanwhile, enemy cannons blow up, firearms and beaks fall to pieces, ships crack up and sink to the bottom. In blind fury the enemy takes to hand-to-hand combat, cursing and blaspheming. Suddenly the Pope falls, seriously wounded. He is instantly helped up but, struck down a second time, dies. A shout of victory rises from the enemy and wild rejoicing sweeps their ships. But no sooner is the Pope dead than another takes his place. The captains of the auxiliary ships elected him so quickly that the news of the Pope's death coincides with that of his successor's election. The enemy's self-assurance wanes.

"Breaking through all resistance, the new Pope steers his ship safely between the two columns and moors it to the two columns; first to the one surmounted by the Host, and then to the other, topped by the statue of the Virgin. At this point something unexpected happens. The enemy ships panic and disperse, colliding with and scuttling each other. Some auxiliary ships which had gallantly fought alongside their flagship are the first to tie up at the two columns.



hmmm.... :?: :?: :?:

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PostPosted: 27 Apr 2005 11:47 
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Daniel,

It was ever thus.
Thus it is now and thus it evermore shall be until the Lord's return.
(Thank you, Jesus!)


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PostPosted: 27 Apr 2005 14:10 
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did the message get through?

The dean of the College of Cardinals, Joseph Ratzinger, during the first act of the conclave, the Missa pro eligendo pontifice, gave the same cry of alarm in another form:

Quote:
"How many winds of doctrine we have known in recent decades, how many ideological currents, how many ways of thinking… The small boat of thought of many Christians has often been tossed about by these waves -- thrown from one extreme to the other: from Marxism to liberalism, even to libertinism; from collectivism to radical individualism; from atheism to a vague religious mysticism; from agnosticism to syncretism, and so forth. Every day new sects are created and what Saint Paul says about human trickery comes true, with cunning which tries to draw those into error."


Coincidence... :?: :?: :?:

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PostPosted: 28 Apr 2005 01:21 
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Daniel:
I think the point is well taken. :)

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PostPosted: 28 Apr 2005 02:58 
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Daniel, Bob, and Kevin or anyone else who comes by and reads this thread:

What do you think the two pillars are supposed to represent?

What exactly do you guys see in this prophesy?

I need to re-read it because I think I'm missing something. :?


Mary

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PostPosted: 28 Apr 2005 03:37 
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Mary,

From what I have heard and read, the two columns represent Mary and the Eucharist. A lot of people have said that this prophesy was of Pope John Paul II, and after re-reading this WOW-

Look at how quickly Pope Benedict was elected, after the glorious reign of John Paul II, who stood firm against many attacks. One could say that many people of this world were hoping for a more liberal Pope, but much to our delight, we now have Benedict XVI who is just a steadfast. The enemies self assurance wanes...........

Marianne


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 Post subject: my favorite
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2005 13:42 
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hi all,

this is my favorite prophecy, and i think of it often. If our Christian life is not based on these two pillars, we will be "missing the mark." Thus i have learned that nothing is as powerful as Daily Mass and Devotion to Mary. The book that has and is changing my life is written by SAINT LOUIS MARY DE MONTFORT, whose feast day today is. The book, which i would choose over the Bible if i had to choose, is called "True Devotion to Mary." This is THE end times book.

Dear Saint Louis de Montfort, please pray for us :D


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 Post subject: my favorite
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2005 13:43 
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hi all,

this is my favorite prophecy, and i think of it often. If our Christian life is not based on these two pillars, we will be "missing the mark." Thus i have learned that nothing is as powerful as Daily Mass and Devotion to Mary. The book that has and is changing my life is written by SAINT LOUIS MARY DE MONTFORT, whose feast day today is. The book, which i would choose over the Bible if i had to choose, is called "True Devotion to Mary." This is THE end times book.

Dear Saint Louis de Montfort, please pray for us :D


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PostPosted: 28 Apr 2005 14:44 
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Thanks Daniel :D

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PostPosted: 29 Apr 2005 04:35 
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PJ2
Year of the roasary
Year of the eucharist
All of the countless attacks on the church.
Quick election of Pope Benedict XVI

And dont forget PJ2 was also shot


Ive been thinking this profecy was for our times for the last few years ever since I whent to a Catholic summer school where that vision was the theme. I really do think Pope Benedict XVI will lead the church the final mile :) I have a site with some of my paintings that have kinda centerd on the vision.

Just noticed there is a part of the visiosn missing from my site :? And I cant update it anymore :( :evil: wrahg
http://artastic.co.nz/catholicart/

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PostPosted: 29 Apr 2005 14:09 
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wow! i loved your art!


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PostPosted: 29 Apr 2005 15:34 
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momof4 wrote:
Mary,

From what I have heard and read, the two columns represent Mary and the Eucharist. A lot of people have said that this prophesy was of Pope John Paul II, and after re-reading this WOW-

Look at how quickly Pope Benedict was elected, after the glorious reign of John Paul II, who stood firm against many attacks. One could say that many people of this world were hoping for a more liberal Pope, but much to our delight, we now have Benedict XVI who is just a steadfast. The enemies self assurance wanes...........

Marianne


Thanks, Marianne...I hope to be able to re-read it soon. Right now I'm pretty exhausted from a lot of allergy related stress.


Mary

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PostPosted: 30 Apr 2005 15:56 
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Well, I just finished re-reading it and what remains with me is this :

Quote:
The ships defending the flagship he equated with the laity and the attackers with those trying to destroy the Church, while the two columns represented devotion to Mary and the Eucharist.


Naturally the Eucharist and Mary are the absolute essential but I sure do love seeing the role of the faithful laity brought into the light.


Mary

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PostPosted: 30 Apr 2005 17:34 
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Quote:
"Many others, which had fearfully kept far away from the fight, stand still, cautiously waiting until the wrecked enemy ships vanish under the waves. Then, they too head for the two columns, tie up at the swinging hooks, and ride safe and tranquil beside their flagship. A great calm now covers the sea."


There may be a few ways of interpreting this (if the dream is authentic and meant for our times).

1. the "many others" may refer to those Bishops, who with their diocese, are lukewarm and afraid to stand up for the faith, concerned as they are about the wrath of the Church's enemies. As they see the Papacy withstand the attack they hurry to Peter's side renewed in faith and courage.

2. the "many others" may refer to the separated brethren, Protestants and Orthodox alike, and we may see a renewed unity within the Church.

3. the "many others" may refer to individual christians, those who have called themselves Catholic but have not lived their faith in fear of ridicule. These now return to the Church and renew their sacramental life.

or

it could be all 3.

I don't know, but I'm glad to be alive in these exciting times. :lol:

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PostPosted: 30 Apr 2005 17:41 
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Dennis...I like your interpretations. I sure don't have that gift.


Mary

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PostPosted: 30 Apr 2005 19:05 
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Bear wrote:
Quote:
"Many others, which had fearfully kept far away from the fight, stand still, cautiously waiting until the wrecked enemy ships vanish under the waves. Then, they too head for the two columns, tie up at the swinging hooks, and ride safe and tranquil beside their flagship. A great calm now covers the sea."


There may be a few ways of interpreting this (if the dream is authentic and meant for our times).

1. the "many others" may refer to those Bishops, who with their diocese, are lukewarm and afraid to stand up for the faith, concerned as they are about the wrath of the Church's enemies. As they see the Papacy withstand the attack they hurry to Peter's side renewed in faith and courage.

2. the "many others" may refer to the separated brethren, Protestants and Orthodox alike, and we may see a renewed unity within the Church.

3. the "many others" may refer to individual christians, those who have called themselves Catholic but have not lived their faith in fear of ridicule. These now return to the Church and renew their sacramental life.

or

it could be all 3.

I don't know, but I'm glad to be alive in these exciting times. :lol:


Dennis,

I agree with your interpretation and suggest the many others are all 3.

In my opinion, what all 3 have in common is some lack of unity with His Church for any number of sceptical and or ignorant 'reasons' that preclude them from faithful obedience.

The ships of the "many others" have been navigating the waters as close as comfortably possible to the two columns with the primary goal of remaining afloat comfortably (mortal matters of the flesh) rather than suffering the course necessary to moor upon the two columns (eternal matters of the soul).

The battle provides clarity and impetus to the "many others" in that it clearly differentiates good from evil and shows clearly the path to salvation from all else false which is mortal.

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PostPosted: 01 May 2005 23:46 
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Mary wrote:
Daniel, Bob, and Kevin or anyone else who comes by and reads this thread:

What do you think the two pillars are supposed to represent?

What exactly do you guys see in this prophesy?

I need to re-read it because I think I'm missing something. :?


Mary

Mary:
I take the two pillars to represent Eucharist is Jesus which is both God and the founder of the Church.The Eucharist is also the center of our Faith and as such will protect us.
Mary who is our mother like any good mother (and she is the best) will look after us. I also believe her love of us is only surpassed by the love God has for us. As she is our mother she will do like a mother and help lead us down the correct path.

As far as the popes I believe It is showing us as one pope dies God has another person ready to steady the Church. It follows His promise of over 2000 years.

These are my views and might differ from others.

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PostPosted: 02 May 2005 18:40 
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RDANNEMILLER wrote:
Mary wrote:
Daniel, Bob, and Kevin or anyone else who comes by and reads this thread:

What do you think the two pillars are supposed to represent?

What exactly do you guys see in this prophesy?

I need to re-read it because I think I'm missing something. :?


Mary

Mary:
I take the two pillars to represent Eucharist is Jesus which is both God and the founder of the Church.The Eucharist is also the center of our Faith and as such will protect us.
Mary who is our mother like any good mother (and she is the best) will look after us. I also believe her love of us is only surpassed by the love God has for us. As she is our mother she will do like a mother and help lead us down the correct path.

As far as the popes I believe It is showing us as one pope dies God has another person ready to steady the Church. It follows His promise of over 2000 years.

These are my views and might differ from others.



Dan, and all...looks like we're pretty much all on the same page, so to speak. :D


Mary

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2011 13:35 
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I reread this topic now as it seems more topical...

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2011 13:51 
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Have there been any references to the two pillars and the "narrow gate"?


Mary

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2011 14:44 
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Mary wrote:
Have there been any references to the two pillars and the "narrow gate"?


Mary


I have yet to look -that is my intent, to see if any more apparent references have been made.

My feeling is that the "situation" of the world and the Church is that the Pope now has almost completed the task of steering the ship safely between the two columns (rejecting the lies of the world and reinforcing His Truth) and subsequently firmly mooring the ship to the two columns (make clear where is the division between chaos of relativism and firm footing of His Truth -show all by action the way and the light that they may see clearly and come):

Quote:
Breaking through all resistance, the new Pope steers his ship safely between the two columns and moors it to the two columns; first to the one surmounted by the Host, and then to the other, topped by the statue of the Virgin. At this point something unexpected happens. The enemy ships panic and disperse, colliding with and scuttling each other. Some auxiliary ships which had gallantly fought alongside their flagship are the first to tie up at the two columns.

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2011 17:02 
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Daniel
Why did you put the prophecy of this famous saint in the speculation/junk science section?
Has it been rejected by the Church?

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2011 19:24 
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Carmelite wrote:
Daniel
Why did you put the prophecy of this famous saint in the speculation/junk science section?
Has it been rejected by the Church?


If I remember correctly my intent -it was not the prophecy questioned -I felt my interpretation could be considered speculation.

As to the veracity of the prophecy, I honestly do not know if the Church has made an official statement. Maybe others can add more on this?

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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2011 14:38 
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Pope urges new archbishops to draw people out of 'stormy seas'

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Vatican City, Feb 7, 2011 / 05:10 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Benedict XVI ordained five new archbishops Feb. 5 at the Vatican and called upon them to "throw out the nets of the Gospel into the stormy seas of our time" to draw men and women out of "the salty waters of death."

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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2011 20:15 
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Mary wrote:
Dennis...I like your interpretations. I sure don't have that gift.


Mary


You wrote what I was thinking! :)

I think all three are certainly excellent and likely.

It is interesting that in our times, one by one the non-Catholic Christian churches are falling into deep errors, acceptance of chemical birth control, abortion, female 'priest/priestesses', rejections of various ancient Christian beliefs, strange new theologies, etc. Only the one Church that has the Eucharist and a sound understanding of Mary and follows the lead of the Pope seems to survive without going wrong over time.

I know instantly when in a group who I am going to get along with and who I will avoid--if they are determined to disrespect Mary I know that we'll never to be friends unless they wake up and repent of it.

I understand some Christians thinking the Eucharist is merely spiritually Christ, and while this is an error, they do not intend disrespect to Christ in making this error. But I have had run-ins with people who were proud of their disrespect for Mary. I don't mean people who just don't think about her at all apart from the nativity scene at Christmas. I mean people who will insult her directly, knowing they are being offensive and pleased with their own disrespect. I pray for them but I don't socialize with them.

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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2011 20:41 
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Hi, Everyone,

I love this topic and I'm glad it's been bumped up. This prophecy reminds me of St. Louis De Montford's True Devotion to Mary as someone above has already noted. In the book, St. Louis wrote that Mary will raise up saints of the latter times. These saints will be little in the eyes of the world but great soldiers of God. Of course, the whole dream just reads to me as a confirmation and encouragement of what Jesus promised about the Church: "The gates of hell will not prevail against it." Reading this prophecy brought much needed comfort. Not having read everyone's responses thoroughly yet, I don't dare say anything else.

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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2011 20:54 
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Nina,
What you said reminded me of a prophecy that I heard of, that was given to St Dominic. It said that the Blessed Mother will one day save the world through the Rosary and the Scapular (Brown one of the Carmelites).

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 19:05 
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Hi, Kim! :)

Quote:
a prophecy that I heard of, that was given to St Dominic. It said that the Blessed Mother will one day save the world through the Rosary and the Scapular (Brown one of the Carmelites).


I've heard of this prophecy, too. The good news is that one doesn't have to be a Carmelite to wear the Brown Scapular. All serious Catholics can reap the benefits. ( I'm sure there are extra perks, though, that go with it if one is a Carmelite. :) ) Mary's being the head of God's army goes way back to Genesis 3:15. God declared war and He put Mary in charge. Since He created her Immaculate, the devil can't touch her. God's crowning her as Queen of the Angels means that the devil has to acknowledge her as his queen (even if he doesn't want to) since he is merely a fallen angel. It was all set up from the start! :)

Going back to the original prophecy, the Church is known as Mother Church. Mary is Mother of the Church but She and the Church are often, symbolically, envisioned interchangably. I still need to read everyone's posts thoroughly, but from glancing, I agree with Daniel that, applied to today's culture, the prophecy can speak of relativism vs. Truth. What's important to remember is the importance of developing a Catholic spirituality. I think this is where we lose a lot of people to New Age, secularism, Protestantism, or what have you. The Sacraments, the Rosary, First Friday and First Saturday Devotions, sacramentals, praying the LOTH...basically, acknowledging and embracing that the supernatural and the natural are integrated into one reality. Being Catholic is so much more than agreeing with doctrine. It's an intimate relationship with God. Let it be known, though, that, without right teaching, an authentically intimate relationship with God can't exist. Intimacy is the fruit of Truth.

O.k, I really need to learn to stop posting before reading what has been written about the topic first. :oops:

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 20:02 
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Mary's Girl wrote:
I've heard of this prophecy, too. The good news is that one doesn't have to be a Carmelite to wear the Brown Scapular. All serious Catholics can reap the benefits.


Yes-anyone can reap the benefits by getting invested in and wearing the Brown Scapular. BTW, John Paul II was a Third Order Carmelite, and he of course, wore that Scapular.

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2013 17:22 
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dlm wrote:
My feeling is that the "situation" of the world and the Church is that the Pope now has almost completed the task of steering the ship safely between the two columns (rejecting the lies of the world and reinforcing His Truth) and subsequently firmly mooring the ship to the two columns (make clear where is the division between chaos of relativism and firm footing of His Truth -show all by action the way and the light that they may see clearly and come):

Quote:
Breaking through all resistance, the new Pope steers his ship safely between the two columns and moors it to the two columns; first to the one surmounted by the Host, and then to the other, topped by the statue of the Virgin. At this point something unexpected happens. The enemy ships panic and disperse, colliding with and scuttling each other. Some auxiliary ships which had gallantly fought alongside their flagship are the first to tie up at the two columns.


I revisit this again. Pondering what happens today, I think maybe I was a wee bit optimistic as to where we are now. The ensuing and escalating battle as to Religious Liberty only now heating up will in my opinion clearly be that which differentiates the division.

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013 14:44 
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Daniel,
I think that the prophecy of the "unexpected" event of "The enemy ships panic and disperse, colliding with and scuttling each other" did not happen yet.

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Kim, M



"....abstinence and chastity, dispose man very much to the perfection of intellectual operation.” St Thomas Aquinas


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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013 17:44 
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Carmelite wrote:
Daniel,
I think that the prophecy of the "unexpected" event of "The enemy ships panic and disperse, colliding with and scuttling each other" did not happen yet.


You are correct. No doubt, one of the enemy ships is comprised of a community organized crew.

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"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51


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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2013 21:26 
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dlm wrote:

You are correct. No doubt, one of the enemy ships is comprised of a community organized crew.


LOL
:)

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Kim, M



"....abstinence and chastity, dispose man very much to the perfection of intellectual operation.” St Thomas Aquinas


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