Catholic Online Forum

David,



Oh, dear. Nominalsim! Tsk, tsk.

So, if, as the "Wicked Bible" has it, the Commandment had read "Thou shalt commit adultery", then adultery would be not only permissible but obligatory? That simply won't do. Adultery is not wrong because God says it is; God says adultery is wrong because it is. Rationally. We don't need God to tell us that adultery is wrong; it is something we can work out for ourselves. That adultery is wrong is a moral truth that unaided human reason is able to discern

The question of God (or "the gods") as Reason vs God as Will has been dealt with beautifully (though differently) by poets of the calibre of Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides. In our own time it has been addressed very thoughtfully by Pope Benedict XVI in his famous Regensburg Lecture (see above).

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

In our Christian culture adultery is wrong because "God says adultery is wrong because it is", true, but that does not translate to a culture that doesn't believe in our God or any God for that matter. Formal polygamy and adultery have been around for thousands of years an an effective survival mechanism, they were prevalent in the old Testament. They immoral today because "civilized" society says they are and many "civilized" societies do not believe in the Bible or our God. Those societies determined polygamy and adultery were wrong based on the problems that the practices created as societies became more sophisticated and legally complex. Additionally, in many of those societies in which formal polygamy is outlawed there is an acknowledged if not accepted culture of prostitution or surrogate sex in some form.

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BobA

Then it must be possible, at least in theory, for God to commit immoral acts. I find that hard to accept.

And how could adultery have been wrong before God made it wrong? Does the sin of adultery exist somehow independently of God?

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David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

How about the death of all of the firstborn of Egypt ....

if this were committed by anybody else but God, would you consider that to be a moral act?

"Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good,
for his steadfast love endures forever.
.
.
.
to him who struck down the firstborn of Egypt,
for his steadfast love endures forever"

(ESV version ...http://www.esvbible.org/Psalm+136)

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squirt
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Jamais le mal n’aura le dernier mot. La foi et l’amour déplacent les montagnes de la haine.
- Marguerite (Maggy) Barankitse

David,



No. God cannot act contrary to His own nature.

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

So then God has no free will?

Squirt raises an interesting question. Isn't the killing of innocent children an intrinsically evil act?

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David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

David,



That He cannot act contrary to His own nature is no limitation upon His free will.

You have free will; your free will allows you, should you so choose, to leap from the top of a thirty storey building; that you will not survive the fall is no limitation upon your free will.

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

I reconciled theoretical physics with faith several years ago.

I tend to think of God as not restrained by limitations such as time. He is all knowing -as such, why would He have to act at some point in time e.g. respond to something or choose to act to prevent something. It may be hard to wrap your head around; however, I regard God as unrestrained by the temporal limits of us mortals. From His perspective, past, present, and future are all one instant; here, there, and everywhere are all one point.

The infinite expanding existence we perceive is in reality a singularity divided infinitely in dimensions of space and time.

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51