Catholic Online Forum

Well, yesterday was highschool teacher conferences day. Always, always interesting.

Do you remember when we traded in the I love evolution, religion bashing teacher? Guess what we got in exchange? A zero population growth ethusiast........that's right...........

And guess what else? He is an angry baptized, non practicing Catholic that told me he was aware I had five children and he told me that God told Adam and Eve to go forth and multiply not me.

I told my daughter we had to be prepared for this guy and if it killed her she was going to make his life just a little bit interesting.

I am just asking for some good responses or statements for her to be ready to throw his way during his lectures. She honestly needs help and as of right now is willing to get prepared. Do you have anything at all?

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Elizabeth

"Jesus go before me and prepare the way"

I always reach for the Social Security argument with people like that. There is no better way to explain why the population needs to grow in order for our economic system to function.

If this is a teenaged daughter (I forget which teacher this was), I would have her shrug and say, "Some day, my four siblings and I will be financing your retirement."

Even people who don't rely upon Social Security rely upon the consumers who buy the products that pay the dividends to the retirement funds. You don't even need to be a taxpayer to participate in that part of the process.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

So he wants the world all to himself, eh? A pity his mother and father wanted him to be born.

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Dean
Most people's sense of history goes back to breakfast time - Benjamin Netanyahu

Elizabeth, I don't usually get involved on your threads, not because I dont like them, I do, but because I cannot have children and have nothing to add.

On this occasion though I would like to say that I wouldn't even lower myself defending my cause here, nor would I get any pleasure out of 'fighting' this idiot.

I would report him.


Maria.

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Maria

He is a teacher, right?

If people stopped having children, he would be out of a job, no?

Or am I missing something?????????

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Jules Xx


What will become of sinners?

Actually, I have read a lot of your threads as well and I think you always have a lot to add.



I am not going to fight this fight. I simply want my daughter to be able to throw out provocative questions and get the other children in the class, that tend to believe what they are told, to think.

I never get a pleasure in fighting with teachers. As a matter of fact yesterday, I was looking at the sea of teachers in that gymnasium set up at their tables and I wondered why I always seem to get "this" teacher. There are some wonderful, insightful, inspiring teachers on board at my childrens school but for some reason, they always get someone who gets to me.

My own husband last night wondered how this even happen to come up. I started out with a simple question because my daughter had asked me what exactly zero population was about two days ago. She currently has an A in the class and if she had not asked this question I would have had no reason to stop at his table.

If this were my firstborn, he would have me proofreading his arguments before class. I simply don't want my daughter, who is more interested in socializing and texting to let this opportunity to confront such radical ideas, get away. She can respectfully question him in a classroom setting and make sure that the opposing views are heard.

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Elizabeth

"Jesus go before me and prepare the way"

Well, if you ask him, he is a scientist first.

After our little discussion, I went on to the happy English teacher because I wanted good news and a chance to calm down. The lady in the chair next to me asked me where I had just come from and I told her. She laughed and said that explained my clenched jaw. She did add that her husband walked out on the guys conference last semester. At least I know I am not alone.

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Elizabeth

"Jesus go before me and prepare the way"

And any teacher whose goal is to develop truly educated adults, with strongly developed critical thinking skills would welcome such debate. During my fifteen year tenure teaching in a public high school, I often used debate as a learning tool.

But the debate I encouraged was between students, with me as moderator. Sure, I would occasionally ask a question designed to elicit a well-thought-out answer but no teacher in a public school system has the right to bring her/his personal bias to the classroom and teach it as fact. Teachers have the unfair advantage of speaking from a position of authority and there are far too many quiet, shy young people who will without argument accept what teachers promulgate as uncontroverted truth.

Excellent teachers do not teach final positions. They teach the thinking skills which allow students to reach a well-reasoned position on their own.

I agree with Maria that debating this guy is probably fruitless.

However, in most public school systems, there is a complaint hierarchy for complaints. If you go to a building administrator about a teacher, the first thing the administrator will ask is "Have you talked to the teacher about this?"

My response to this teacher's unwarranted interjection into curriculum of his personal beliefs would be to set up an appointment with this teacher, ask if he believes he should be espousing his personal beliefs about population as truth, then let the conversation go from there. Ask questions. Take notes of responses. Quite possible, as often happens with opinionated. egotistical people, that first question may give you all the ammo you need to request a meeting with the building administrator.

If the building administrator does not satisfactorily address your concerns, go to the superintendent of schools. Still no satisfaction? Request a spot on the school board's agenda for the next meeting.

One caveat, though. Before doing this, clear it with your daughter. I have made the mistake of jumping to the defense of my children when they didn't want me to.

But no teacher should be allowed to get away with what this one is promoting.

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In Christ,

Jim B

I will consider your position if stated with firm, well-thought-out, quiet reasoning. Hateful diatribe, ad hominem attacks and shouted rhetoric don't impress.

Actually, I have no intention of debating him. I have bigger fish to fry. I have an 8 year old that needs a lot of attention right now. Another thing to remember is that, as of right now, it has not been in the classroom. It was a hushed tone, somewhat heated exchange between myself and this teacher that made the teacher sitting next to him start to get nervous. I wanted to find out where he was going to take this discussion on zero population growth and within minutes I got an answer. As of right now, it is between him and me. I started the discussion because I wanted to know if abortion was going to be presented as an answer.

For the record, in case I always sounds like I am complaining about teachers, I love the kdg. teacher, I love the economics teacher, both English teachers (actually I love all English teachers unless they like diagramming sentences) one of the math teachers is amazing, the Spanish teacher has a great sense of humor and the chemistry teacher still comes over for coffee sometimes. The asst principal lives two doors down and I always walk with his wife when it is nice out. I am not just out to complain about them. Really.

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Elizabeth

"Jesus go before me and prepare the way"

I agree with what you are saying here Elizabeth and as Jim says, good teachers welcome a good intelligent debate amongst pupils/students; my sister in law is a techaer like this and I realy respect her very much.

I cannot see how an insulting person who makes personal comments about your maternal status, and uses Chritianity as a weapon in this way could command much respect though.

I think you are commendable for not retaliating there and then as he said what he said. I am not a charitable as you are when confronted with an illicit attack like this. As you \know, I have no children but if it had been said in front of my daughter, I would have mentioned this to The Head. This person has no right to criticise you for how many children you have, especially as you are following The Catholic Way in this and he should have known better as a lapsed Catholic.

This really peeves me even though technically its none of my business, but sionce we are Sisters in Christ, it IS my business. Oooooooooo!

Maria.

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Maria

Sorry about the typing errors - have to go now. Will look again later.

Maria.

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Maria

Actually that comment was almost the last in our exchange. It actually made me laugh because I could not believe he said that. He shocked me. At that point, I told him he was a couple of sandwiches shy of a good picnic and went on to the next teacher.

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Elizabeth

"Jesus go before me and prepare the way"

Elizabeth,

It sounds as though he had it coming to him. Perhaps he will think twice before insulting you next time.

God bless,

Maria

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Maria

JMJ

Jules did make a good point. Fewer children--fewer teachers. However, since this guy seems to think he is always right, he probably figures he will always have a job. He may be in for a surpirse.

Elizabeth, glad you stood up to him! Go for it! He needs to hear other opinions rather than his own--assuming he listenes.

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Peace.. Mary Jo
They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles (Isiah 40:32)

I second this. Isn't the purpose of parent-teacher conferences to discuss how the student is doing in that subject matter? Why would the topic of your family size come up?

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Nell

"Peace is not the product of terror or fear. Peace is not the silence of cemeteries. Peace is not the silent result of violent repression. Peace is the generous, tranquil contribution of all to the good of all." Archbishop Romero

I'm with Nell, why did he bring up your family size and insult you?

That is something I would be concerned about a teacher should not be insulting parents or children. He not only insulted you, but also your children's very existence, well the last 3 of them since the first two keep you at zero population growth.

If you asked about the topic of zero population growth in the classroom he should've just stated what was discussed and how it fit the curriculum.

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Judas was the first to leave mass early

It's the same logic that is busy ensuring the continued health of auto companies while planning taxes and other means to discourage driving.

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- Joe Kelley

Death is only a shadow across the path to Heaven.

My husband keeps asking the same thing. He keeps saying, "How did you get from, "How is my daughter doing in class?" to the traded insults?"

I don't know. I swear the conversation started out with a smile, handshake and introduction.

I will admit I was hoping that I was not going to hear anything about "responsible choices" (his code for abortion). When I heard it, I got a little exasperated.

As wrong as this all seems, my daughter and I did have a good discussion about things and had a good time coming up with questions and statements that should throw him for at least a small loop.

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Elizabeth

"Jesus go before me and prepare the way"

I just wanted to share this. Actually, I felt a strong need to share it because I was getting to the point where I thought maybe it was ME.

I was beginning to feel like I was walking around with a chip on my shoulder, waiting for some teacher to knock it off.

I got a phone call today wondering if my daughter had said anything about the biology teacher and anything he may have said about the size of our family. I said no she didn't have to. I had already had that discussion at conferences.

Apparently, he told some of the kids in class that their parents were irresponsible in regard to the size of their families. etc., etc. and he hopes those children do not repeat the mistakes of their parents.

Guess what? I don't have to say anything. There is a storm brewing. The good news is, it wasn't just me.

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Elizabeth

"Jesus go before me and prepare the way"

I've had so many negative experiences with teachers and administrators of schools, all trained in our wonderful secular teaching colleges, all with degrees in education....uuurrhhh!

I don't think it is you at all!

And this teacher is so tactless and to go prove it!! And I do hope the sky falls in his classroom and that the kids all hear a LOT from their parents and his lack of proper behavior, and his wrong attitude!

We all should seek, if called to the vocation of marriage, a quiver full of children! A full table, a joy of abundance of lives under our roofs! What is irresponsible is for someone from the outside to presume to teach our children that we as their parents are not to be listened to and respected!

But sadly, this teacher is very typical. Honestly, after my experiences with schools here, I am one certified teacher who is very PRO HOME SCHOOL. But then again, I came through my student teaching and observations and got my degree and came out of my teacher training with the desire to NEVER have my children in any public school. Sadly, some of my experiences with private schools were no better.

I've been enjoying this thread. I think you handle your experiences so very well!

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K. Ann Seeton

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle (but the concept is found in John Paul II's books The Acting Person and Love and Responsibility as well.)

Quicksilver to Gold
http://hg2au.com

You know what is so sad? For every wonderful teacher that got into it because they love children and have a strong desire to make a difference in a child's life, there is one that got into it for some very wrong reasons. Or, they got into for the right reasons and are now burned out and continue when they should have hung it up five years ago.

Each of my children have had teachers they will remember years from now for the best of reasons. (I myself have four I will never, ever forget) But there are those that require so much effort just to get thru the class, that I as a parent, sometimes forget to tell the good ones that I appreciate their efforts.

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Elizabeth

"Jesus go before me and prepare the way"

Even if a teacher gets into teaching to influence the world by influencing its next generation, if the teacher has the wrong convictions, the wrong philosophical base, the wrong morals, the teacher will do great damage.

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Dean
Most people's sense of history goes back to breakfast time - Benjamin Netanyahu

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Maria

Apparently, he told some of the kids in class that their parents were irresponsible in regard to the size of their families. etc., etc., and he hopes those children do not repeat the mistakes of their parents.

This is hatefulness towards children.
He is teaching the children that they ought not to honour their fathers and mothers.
He is abusing the trust of the parents who entrust their children into the system amongst adults who should show respect towards the childrens' parents.
Exactly what IS this persons' problem I wonder.
I think he is unfit to be teaching.
Next he will teach that abortion is ok and commendable, that the use contraceptives are the correct way engage in sex. I doubt he would say anything about love between a husband and wife.
Does he have any authority on sexual education.
I wonder if he is even to be trusted with a child.

I have to say Elizabeth, on this occasion I would create such a stink about it and I would contact the higher ups about this as I see it as a form of mental and emotional abuse even if I was worried that he was not actuially abusing his teaching role, which I certainly think he is.

However, I do not have any children of my own so I reckon my views dont really count as such.

I hope he gets disciplined for this and has to apologise publicly to the parents and children.

At best, I would think a discipline is all he would get.

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Maria

I attended public schools until I dropped out in the tenth grade and joined the Marine Corps. Later, after earning a GED, I attended Rockhurst College, a Jesuit institution, where I graduated with a BA in psych with a minor in Business administration. I then enrolled in the University of Missouri at Kansas City, a state university, where I obtained an MA in counselor edcation. I then taught in a public high school for 15 years.

In all those years, the teachers that most influenced me and that I still regard as the primary catalysts for whatever good I have done in this world taught at a small community college ran by Benedictine sisters.

It was there that this high school dropout gained the confidence that enabled me to continue my education.

Sister Mary Faith Schuster, Retired Army Col. Delbert Jurden and Father Francis Moriones, O.A.R deserve ALL of the credit for any good I have done in this world. They accepted me as I was, encouraged me to achieve and changed the life direction of this sinner for the better.

They are all with God now.

I will never forget them. I owe them a debt I can never repay.

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In Christ,

Jim B

I will consider your position if stated with firm, well-thought-out, quiet reasoning. Hateful diatribe, ad hominem attacks and shouted rhetoric don't impress.

For me, it was Mrs Rohring in 4th grade who inspired a lifelong love of reading. My mother called her when I had the mumps and wanted to know what we were reading because I was most distraught about the books I was missing. She brought me over her personal library to keep me entertained while I was ill.

Mr Zehrenner, who somehow made History come to life and made it seem like one continuous, fabulous soap opera.

Old Man McCauley who was always entertained by my writings and made me feel like I had so much to offer the world.

And last but not least because she was the most loved of all my teachers, Sister Mary Elizabeth, my highschool religion teacher, who's love for Christ and the Catholic faith was so evident and inspiring, you could not help but fall in love with Christ as well.

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Elizabeth

"Jesus go before me and prepare the way"

Now think about that for a minute. Mr Zero Population growth was telling a third and fourth born child they were actually mistakes. I would definitely call that a hateful attitude.

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Elizabeth

"Jesus go before me and prepare the way"

Isnt it lovely that there are some real teachers still left in the world who are not dictators and bigot.

My long memory of my favoutite teacher was Mrs. Meyers in my junior school. She was so beautiful and gentle and always had a lovely smile. She was loved by us all. She was a Catholic actually as well.
When we 'found out' her name was Joyce, we felt privelaged to know this.
She made a lasting impression on me and I always hoped I would grow up to be like her.
I have wondered if she is still alive and wouldnt it be lovely for her to read this about herself on the Forum if she reads this.

Mrs. Meyers, thank you, and to all other good teachers in our lives

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Maria

I agree with you and with Elizabeth. The attitudes of this zero pop person are clearly against honoring parents and hateful toward children. The message he sent was that children are not a blessing, and that parents who think children are a blessing and so seek lots of them are bad people.

Living in a large college town, I have witnessed some of the negativity of the zero pop people. They truly believe that it is irresponsible and even evil to have more than two children at the maximum.

The same people sometimes even take it to the extreme that if you do have two children they should be several years apart and if you have them close together, then you must be ignorant or uneducated, possibly even illiterate. After all, someone of intelligence and education would never choose to have children while young, and have them close together in age!

As the mother of two adult children, and two on the way (God willing!) I am very unhappy with the proliferation of acceptance of this zero population growth philosophy.

I doubt this teacher will apologize, but it won't hurt to let the other parents know that they have been publically insulted by this teacher.

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K. Ann Seeton

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle (but the concept is found in John Paul II's books The Acting Person and Love and Responsibility as well.)

Quicksilver to Gold
http://hg2au.com

It is evident that Catholics make good mothers otherwise why would God let them have so many lovely children

There is also the other end of the spectrum Ann. I know a woman who for reasons of her own does not have children (not me) and I have heard comments made that she is selfish because she hasnt got any children. How cruel is that? Perhaps she cannot have any.

Anyway, I think it is lovely to want children and to want to give life.
What a wonderful Blessing.

I hope you are feeling better lately Ann, and that things are better than they were.
(Haven't forgotten them by the way and I have said a little prayer for you all).

How long before they arrive?

Good night and God bless all on this Forum.

Maria

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Maria

I agree, that is cruel, and I have met with that from fellow Catholics because God only gave me two children when I was in my 20's. It was often implied that I must contracept because I only had the two children--and I never did because I wanted a large family.

So, yes, that side comes into it.

The babies are due in September. I am still ill from this bug. I think the antibiotics are doing their jobs, as is the prednisone and albuteral inhaler. Next ultrasound is monday and I hope to see two healthy babies still. But as sick as I have been, I am understandably worried about them.

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K. Ann Seeton

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle (but the concept is found in John Paul II's books The Acting Person and Love and Responsibility as well.)

Quicksilver to Gold
http://hg2au.com

JMJ

My prayers for a sucessful ultrasound.

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Peace.. Mary Jo
They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles (Isiah 40:32)

Maria, you said



You are a blessing, do you know that? And have an enlightened attitude to boot!

My husband and I hear this regularly - especially at Church and from people who should know better. We have been married for 6 years, open to life, and have not conceived. It is looking like we will not be able to have babies at all (we have had all the medical checks and invasive procedures etc et al... it is not looking good). It is bad enough that we know that babies are likely not part of our future. I certainly do not need strangers or acquaintances telling me that I am selfish because I don't have children!!

For various other reasons adoption is not an option for us as well, so I am coming to terms with being child-free. Some days it is easy, others it is not.

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Best Wishes,

Clare Rickett

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort"
Herm Albright 1876-1944

Another prayer on its way for you Ann, and I hope you feel better yourself soon as well

Maria

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Maria

Clare, whatever happens, trust me- The Lord has a plan for you. I do not think I should say more than this as I know how personal this issue is to deal with. I could not have children and I was turned down for adoption because of reason I thought were totally unfair.
However, I now know that God had this situation firmly in his hands and it WAS unfair to be turned down for the reason I was turned down, but God had something far better for me. As the years rolled by my life has unfolded before Him and He is there all the time.

It is painful at times but God heals and is Merciful and Charitable.

I hope you have your much wanted baby in time Clare, and I will pray for you as well.

God bless you both.

Love Maria.

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Maria