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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2011 13:23 
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I hope this is the correct forum section for this.


-small excerpt:
Quote:
WASHINGTON, D.C., January 14, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) - the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has criticized the US bishops for opposing free birth control under the new health care law, saying that the Catholic leaders “cannot interfere” into the matter “by turning their religious beliefs into federal law.”

The ACLU made the remarks in a January 12 hearing before an Institute of Medicine committee, which has been charged with determining what should be covered as preventive care under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. The group called birth control coverage “good medicine” and “a critical component of basic health care for women.”

“Whether the new health guidelines should mandate contraceptive coverage is not a religious question, as the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has argued,” read the statement, which the organization posted online. “It is critical that the guidelines that the Department of Health and Human Services issues later this year recognize the importance of birth control as preventive care and put an end to politicians and faith leaders imposing their religious beliefs on women and their families.”

“Religious leaders are free to express their belief that birth control is immoral, but they cannot interfere in our personal decision making by turning their religious beliefs into federal law and taking away access to critical health care,” the statement concluded.


Religious beliefs are one thing, religious practice another.

Somehow, I missed the news regarding the ACLU complaining in regard to Immigration Reform, the START Treaty, and the Dream Act?

It would seem the ACLU picks and chooses just what it is that is acceptable for the US Bishops to support or oppose...

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2011 13:28 
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It would seem the ACLU picks and chooses


Of course they do.

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2011 17:13 
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dlm wrote:
  • ACLU: US Bishops not allowed to protest contraception coverage mandate

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“Religious leaders are free to express their belief that birth control is immoral, but they cannot interfere in our personal decision making by turning their religious beliefs into federal law and taking away access to critical health care,” the statement concluded.

Daniel,

Bishops not allowed to protest? I hate to be a wet blanket, but the sentence I quoted seems to directly contradict your headline.

It says that the Biships are allowed to protest. And of course, the ACLU could not prevent them from protesting, if they wanted to.

Moreover, they cannot prevent religious beliefs from becoming law, they themselves can only protest and hope to convince some branch the government that their views should prevail.

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2011 17:29 
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LASaxman wrote:
dlm wrote:
  • ACLU: US Bishops not allowed to protest contraception coverage mandate

Quote:
“Religious leaders are free to express their belief that birth control is immoral, but they cannot interfere in our personal decision making by turning their religious beliefs into federal law and taking away access to critical health care,” the statement concluded.

Daniel,

Bishops not allowed to protest? I hate to be a wet blanket, but the sentence I quoted seems to directly contradict your headline.



Do not worry you are not being a wet blanket. You and I apparently just disagree on the scope of the term protest afforded all that participate in public discourse. When it comes to public debate regarding government, religious views are guaranteed voice in the free market of ideas at all venues that any other ideas are considered.

P.S. That was not my headline. My headline would have probably been: "Communist ACLU attempts to eliminate religious premise from all from public discourse"

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2011 18:34 
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I have to agree with David. The ACLU disagrees with the USCCB on whether or not contraception should be required to be provided by compliant health care plans, and specifies that they disagree because the USCCB is trying to make it a religious issue. The statement makes no comment on whether the USCCB should be permitted ot make statements or demonstrations on the matter.

Here is a link to the full text on the ACLU's web site: http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/ACLU_S ... re_Act.pdf

And the complete text, in full context:

Quote:
ACLU statement for January 12, 2011, Institute of Medicine hearing on Preventive Services Under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Thank you for this opportunity to speak. On behalf of the American Civil Liberties Union, I offer the following comments on the importance of covering birth control as a preventive service under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. In addition to the proven health benefits of
ensuring access to contraception, we believe that birth control is a personal, private decision that should be made by a woman in consultation with her doctor.

Put simply, contraception is a matter of health and individual conscience. Whether the new health guidelines should mandate contraceptive coverage is not a religious question, as the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has argued. It is critical that the guidelines that the Department of Health and Human Services issues later this year recognize the importance of birth control as preventive care and put an end to politicians and faith leaders imposing their religious beliefs on women and their families. We ask this body to recommend that HHS include family planning in the final list of preventive services.

In addition to being good medicine, requiring insurance policies to cover contraception is perfectly consistent with the Federal Constitution. Courts that have considered this question have consistently upheld contraceptive mandates—including those that apply to religiously affiliated insurers. They have upheld these mandates as they are generally applicable and neutral; in other words, their main purpose is to ensure gender equality rather than to suppress or burden conduct based on religious belief. Covering contraception as a preventive service under the new health care law serves a compelling public interest in ensuring that women can get the birth control they need while respecting private decision making.

Access to safe and effective contraception is a critical component of basic health care for women. Without contraception, women have more unplanned pregnancies and are less likely to obtain adequate prenatal care in a timely manner. Access to contraception also helps women and couples decide based on their own religious beliefs and personal circumstances whether and when to have children. Currently publicly funded programs such as Medicaid and the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program and nearly 90 percent of employer-purchased insurance plans cover contraception. It is imperative that the new health insurance program recognize the obvious importance of contraception as a preventive service.

In America, we are all free to decide, based on our own moral and religious beliefs, whether and when to have children. For many of us, religious beliefs influence the decisions we make. These beliefs, however, cannot be mandated by law; they are a matter of personal conscience and individual choice. Religious leaders are free to express their belief that birth control is immoral, but they cannot interfere in our personal decision making by turning their religious beliefs into federal law and taking away access to critical health care.


The ACLU is, of course, totally wrong in their statement. Contraception is objectively immoral, a violation of natural law, and a strong case could probably be made for making it totally illegal. Their legal argument that "everyone covers it already, thus we should require it should be covered" is self-defeating; if it's already covered by nearly everyone, why do we need to mandate it? Their assertion that we should respect peoples' consciences in choosing contraception but NOT respect the consciences of providers and insurers is self-serving and self-contradictory. And their refusal to recognize the sovereign conscience of health care providers and insurers borders on anti-religious bigotry.

So they're wrong in nearly everything they assert. But they did not say that the US bishops are not ALLOWED to protest contraception.

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2011 19:22 
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Kardinal wrote:
I have to agree with David. The ACLU disagrees with the USCCB on whether or not contraception should be required to be provided by compliant health care plans, and specifies that they disagree because the USCCB is trying to make it a religious issue. The statement makes no comment on whether the USCCB should be permitted ot make statements or demonstrations on the matter.


I do not buy, let alone follow this line of reasoning (I do not even consider it reasonable). Maybe I am just missing something -completely blind to some concept unknown to me that is at play here?


I do not see how USCCB is is trying to make a matter of legislation a religious issue? Did they request the government relinquish its authority to the USCCB in this matter?

Clearly the issue entails debate, and opinion input regarding the matter -the ACLU clearly is stating that religious premise is illegitimate premise and want the USCCB to have no seat at the table.

What authority grants the ACLU access to the table they wish to eliminate others from? Are they special?

I will have to disagree here with this religious test the ACLU pushes as it clearly violates the Constitution...

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2011 19:33 
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dlm wrote:
I do not see how USCCB is is trying to make a matter of legislation a religious issue?

I agree with you; the USCCB is NOT making the matter religious. They have a very strong natural law and conscience clause case. But the ACLU is (incorrectly) asserting that the USCCB *IS* opposing it on the basis of religion. But they are not claiming that the USCCB should not be permitted to comment, protest, or otherwise comment on the issue.

dlm wrote:
Clearly the issue entails debate, and opinion input regarding the matter -the ACLU clearly is stating that religious premise is illegitimate premise and want the USCCB to have no seat at the table.

No, they're not stating any such thing.

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2011 20:45 
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Kardinal wrote:
dlm wrote:
I do not see how USCCB is is trying to make a matter of legislation a religious issue?

I agree with you; the USCCB is NOT making the matter religious. They have a very strong natural law and conscience clause case. But the ACLU is (incorrectly) asserting that the USCCB *IS* opposing it on the basis of religion. But they are not claiming that the USCCB should not be permitted to comment, protest, or otherwise comment on the issue.

dlm wrote:
Clearly the issue entails debate, and opinion input regarding the matter -the ACLU clearly is stating that religious premise is illegitimate premise and want the USCCB to have no seat at the table.

No, they're not stating any such thing.


You seem to stress natural law and conscience...

Am I correct to assume you do not feel opposing something simply as a matter of faith (with no evidence) is permitted in matters of legislation and policy?

If so,I would ask you the same question I would ask the ACLU -- explain to me how inalienable rights recognized and as well claimed self evident without proof from the Creator -this, in the highest law of the land, how can this stand the legal scrutiny that the ACLU and those who agree with them endorse?

Further, can one oppose something for no reason justified at all? In essence, can I state that I do not feel x should be funded by government because I just am against it -I just do not want to fund it?

Recently in California's Proposition 8 matter legal challenge there was seen evidenced the same reasoning. In essence, the judge set aside the clear will of the people evidenced in a vote because he determined many voted illegitimately -irrationally, premised upon religious belief rather than facts and or science.

Remember we discuss here NOT imposition of viewpoints upon others by force, we discuss having input into matters being decided and selling ideas -those who hear do not have to accept... The free market of ideas the founders envisioned and codified into law by such things as freedom of speech and religion was NEVER intended to shut out some no matter how unpopular from voicing their thoughts and ideas...

Ultimately, the question involves authority e.g. what gives government (if they agree with the ACLU) the authority to tell the religious to sit down and shut up? If not the people, or not God then where is this governmental authority to shut the people up coming from?

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011 05:57 
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Is the USCCB trying to make it a religious issue? Or is the ACLU trying to insinuate that just because the bishops are commenting on something, it must be religious? If it's the latter, that's a hill to die on. Because they will use that reasoning to keep the Catholic perspective out of evey discussion, and souls will be lost.

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011 07:31 
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dlm wrote:
P.S. That was not my headline. My headline would have probably been: "Communist ACLU attempts to eliminate religious premise from all from public discourse"


Good headline.

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011 11:53 
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The ACLU has a lot of professional lawyers. They are not stupid. They certainly know better than to spew words which would reveal that their intent is to ESTABLISH an atheocracy. In violation of the true intent of the "non-establishment" clause of the US Constitution First Amendment.

To a certain extent the radical left and radical (and maybe also moderate? as opposed to liberal, if the latter even exists?) Islam define themselves in terms of WHAT THEY HATE.

Therefore it maybe should not be surprising that it seems that the radical left often allies itself with anti-Judeo-Christian Islamic activists.

Therefore one must always consider not only the plain meaning of the plain words of statements by such as ACLU, but also try to read between the lines to figure out what the long term intention is.

Furthermore we as Christians must be vigilant that we do not condescend to cynicism and then define ourselves by what we hate, but instead define ourselves by what we love, namely God the Father, His Son, and the Holy Spirit and our neighbors, even the 'Samaritan' neighbors, regardless of whether politically correct or not, and regardless of whose standard of political correctness..

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PostPosted: 19 Jan 2011 21:23 
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A little update.


ACLU Tries to Silence Catholic Bishops on Obamacare Rules

-small excerpt:
Quote:
Monsignor Ignacio Barreiro-Carámbula, interim president of Human Life International, said in an email to LifeNews.com that the ACLU is off base.

“First, the letter from counsel of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) made an argument based entirely on objective information available to every reasonable person. It was clearly not a ‘religious argument’ as the ACLU states,” he said. “Thus, it must be the position of the ACLU that anything that comes from a religious entity is de facto a religious argument, even if it uses no religious premises, and thus is not welcome in the public square. This is utterly unconstitutional as a grave offense to the first amendment, and if accepted as reasoning by the federal government, represents an acceptance of religious bigotry.”

Barreiro-Carámbula also said the ACLU would put women at risk because birth control pills have a known cancer risk and the ACLU is calling for it “to be prescribed to unsuspecting women, and paid for by the government.”



I will bite my tongue; however, my thoughts are not so easy to bite...

:wink:

I will pray that the ACLU is disbanded as soon as possible.

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2013 10:13 
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dlm wrote:
I will pray that the ACLU is disbanded as soon as possible.


I pray even more now that I realize the ACLU is but another communist front organization.

Some may at times seem perplexed by the actions of ACLU when at times it does not support to defend some 'civil rights' specifically detailed and declared in the Constitution while at other times it comes out in vigorous defense of other 'civil rights' that are at best innovations created by the courts with no basis in natural law, common law, or tradition.

What gives?

I would suggest it is simple enough to ascertain a logical and rational conclusion as to what the ACLU is up to by what issues they take on. All one has to do is compare their actions with the published list of specific Communist goals and one will find much in common.

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