Catholic Online Forum

My wife of 55 years (agnostic) was reading a biography in which was mentioned sexual abuse in Boy's Town USA. To get some more information in 'defense' I came across 'Abuse by Members of Roman Catholic Orders' in Wikipedia.
It contained the following quote:-

"Any cleric or monk who seduces young men or boys, or who is apprehended in kissing or in any shameful situation, shall be publicly flogged and shall lose his clerical tonsure. Thus shorn, he shall be disgraced by spitting in his face, bound in iron chains, wasted by six months of close confinement, and for three days each week put on barley bread given him toward evening. Following this period, he shall spend a further six months living in a small segregated courtyard in custody of a spiritual elder, kept busy with manual labor and prayer, subjected to vigils and prayers, forced to walk at all times in the company of two spiritual brothers, never again allowed to associate with young men." St. Peter Damian, to Pope Leo IX, A.D. 1049. Letter 31:38

Note the date. Will we ever learn? I do not have any hope?

Meanwhile what do I tell my family?

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God Bless
Ewald
"Doing the ordinary thing in an extraordinary way". (St Thérèse)

You tell them that men who abuse boys put themselves in positions where they have access and preferably, authority over boys. You tell them that the abuse of older boys is abuse by a homosexual and that unless they want to assume that all homosexuals are abusers, they should perhaps back off the church and look honestly at the world around them and all the different ways that children are abused and all the different places. You tell them that most abusers of all ages and sexes are men so unless they want to assume that all men are abusers they should again, back off the church and recognize the wider problem. It doesn't mean that the church shouldn't be held accountable and the evil recognized, but there is nothing that is unique to the church except perhaps the ready access to children that priests have...just like teachers. I would also mention the deep pockets of the church and how the structure of the church leads to big lawsuits so it appears it's all the Catholic church when there just isn't the same amount of money to be made in other traditions.

I sometimes ask my anti-Catholic friends if they think there is any chance that young boys in buddhist monasteries are being abused and the answer is always "no". Except for one person who said it may be more culturally acceptable in those countries...absurd. I don't believe for a minute that there isn't abuse of boys in those places because all men and women are stained by original sin and again, men who want to abuse boys go where there are boys to abuse and homosexuals are drawn to all male environments.

I'm not ignoring the fact that many, many girls were abused in the church but the vast majority of victims were male. From wiki:



Heterosexual abusers do not target boys 11-17.

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Valerie Garcia
vals1990@yahoo.com

"Listen, O my son, to the precepts of thy master, and incline the ear of thy heart, and cheerfully receive and faithfully execute the admonitions of thy loving Father, that by the toil of obedience thou mayest return to Him ....." St. Benedict

Ewald,

Why should this particular sin be any different from other sins? There were thieves in 1049. There were liars in 1049. Why would it be that our generation might have invented some new sin, unheard of and unattempted by our ancestors?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

Thank you for your input.
Herewith two quick responses:-
1. Yes it happens everywhere but that is no excuse for an organisation that is to uphold our morals.
2. These crimes are far worse because of the long term consequences for innocent victims.

What I desperately need is an official document by the Catholic Church stating the policy, proposed action, the consequences for the perpetrators and what we, as lay people, are supposed to do. So far I have not found such a document. All I have been told - on this forum - is that every diocese has a 'committee' and that, if I know of an incident, I must report it there.

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God Bless
Ewald
"Doing the ordinary thing in an extraordinary way". (St Thérèse)

I've never heard of such a document coming from the top of the church but only that each diocese developed their own policies. I would call your chancery office and ask for help there and for a written copy of the policy of the diocese, if such a thing exists. Some dioceses have responded better than others.

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Valerie Garcia
vals1990@yahoo.com

"Listen, O my son, to the precepts of thy master, and incline the ear of thy heart, and cheerfully receive and faithfully execute the admonitions of thy loving Father, that by the toil of obedience thou mayest return to Him ....." St. Benedict

Well, there is this:
Guide to Understanding Basic CDF Procedures concerning Sexual Abuse Allegations.

And this: Instruction
Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders.

I also thought Fabrizio had put some stuff in a Library, but I can't seem to find anything now.

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Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

Yes, recently in the Greek-language newspapers there have been stories about a coach who allegedly abused 53 children. These sorts of stories don't get spread in English media. And of course, there are no cries that the public school is not a force for good in the world and must be shut down forever.

I also think that some of the priests who did sexually molest boys must have entered the seminary hoping to become "better" and holier and that living a devout life would help them, but then somewhere along the line they gave up. Others I suspect entered under completely false premises and misled authorities who ordained them.

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Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

Many abusers were also victims at one time. Why they feel the need to do to others what was done to them is beyond me. Yet Saint Eudes is quite specific when it comes to "bad" priests. Controversial? Yes, but if you believe in the grace and sanctity of saints you have to wonder and give the idea some thought.

Saint John Eudes said that when God is angry with His people, He sends them bad priests as a chastisement.

Here is what he wrote in his book, The Priest, His Dignity and Obligations:

“The most evident mark of God’s anger and the most terrible castigation He can inflict upon the world are manifested when He permits His people to fall into the hands of clergy who are priests more in name than in deed, priests who practice the cruelty of ravening wolves rather than charity and affection of devoted shepherds ...
“When God permits such things, it is a very positive proof that He is thoroughly angry with His people, and is visiting His most dreadful anger upon them. That is why He cries unceasingly to Christians, ‘Return O ye revolting children ... and I will give you pastors according to My own heart’. (Jer. 3:14,15) Thus, irregularities in the lives of priests constitute a scourge upon the people in consequence of sin.”4
Saint John Eudes warns us that as punishment for man’s sins, God will send us priests who are not according to His own heart, who have a different spirit from that of the Sacred Heart of Our Lord, who have a different heart from that of Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart.

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Pax et Bonum


Schultzz

Many thanks for all the inputs and especially to Arwen for the reference to the two documents. These were exactly what I was looking for. I will study them in great detail and I can then face the onslaught from family and friends.

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God Bless
Ewald
"Doing the ordinary thing in an extraordinary way". (St Thérèse)

I think I found what I remembered Fabrizio posting. It is a forum sticky, rather than a Library post:

Vatican webpages on the abuse of minors

And something more recent from the Vatican: The Sexual Abuse of Minors: A Multi-faceted Response to the Challenge.

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Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

Many thanks Arwen. I have lots to study now.
At least it will keep me out of mischieve

PS. Going over the notes I realize they may have been misleading.
When in my first submission I stated: "My wife of 55 years". Actually I meant that we have been married for 55 years.

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God Bless
Ewald
"Doing the ordinary thing in an extraordinary way". (St Thérèse)

You're welcome.

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

Grace,



I think there is some truth to this. I also think that if a man is a homosexual and knows it will devastate his family, he can become a priest and in a sense, become the "hero" of the family and not it's black sheep.

_________________
Valerie Garcia
vals1990@yahoo.com

"Listen, O my son, to the precepts of thy master, and incline the ear of thy heart, and cheerfully receive and faithfully execute the admonitions of thy loving Father, that by the toil of obedience thou mayest return to Him ....." St. Benedict

Ewald,

I wasn't saying what I said as a defense, of course there is no defense and the offense is worse than many other sins because it can basically destroy the life of that child (though not always, some children are more resilient than others...I've met them), I know this to be true because I was abused and not one of those more resilient children though I had God to guide me and never abused drugs or alcohol or become an abuser myself. My point was that if they're looking at the church as a special case, they're wrong and should look at the statistics for these crimes across the society. They are staggering and it occurs most often by someone the child knew and trusted...very often a teacher or coach, family member or family friend. I once read from a psychologist that in his opinion, one of the most dangerous places for a girl child was in the home where there was a step father or boyfriend. I know many stories of women whose mothers knew of the abuse and did nothing because of a greater attachment to the father or boyfriend. If a mother can turn her face away and deny the abuse or protect the abuser how can we claim that there is something different or especially perverse about the Catholic church?

_________________
Valerie Garcia
vals1990@yahoo.com

"Listen, O my son, to the precepts of thy master, and incline the ear of thy heart, and cheerfully receive and faithfully execute the admonitions of thy loving Father, that by the toil of obedience thou mayest return to Him ....." St. Benedict