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I love the Catholic faith! However, I am still trying to understand somethings because I am relatively new to Catholicism and even any religion. Where does the offering of suffering come from? I have heard some people say offer suffering to the suffering in purgatory and others to Jesus (or to God? or can us say it inter changably). Then a priest said that it is very important to bare your cross and not to complain which almost sounds contradictory to offering suffering unless my understanding of offering is not right. I tried to talk to the priest but he would not see me. He said ask my Church members and I got a lot of mixed and contradicting responses and even some chuckles. I emailed him again the lack of help that was and he did not offer help. I read the bible about baring the cross of persecution in Jesus name...if I understood that correctly. I also read that when Jesus came across others who were tormenting that his response was to drive those demons out back to hell or into swine? So my main questions are where did the offering of suffering come from? How do you do it without complaining? When do you instead bare your cross? And when do you instead pray for the evil to be driven out? And if you don't use all these methods will you be spiritually sick (as I have heard someone refer to such)? Or is the offering our suffering saying basically "I am baring this cross (persecution) for your love" or if it is to offer to those suffering in purgatory do you offer your humility from suffering to those in purgatory that need it? Or when in doubt, does the Lord's prayer cover it all, especially when one makes such great efforts to try to get guidance to understand but are not helped? Because the prayer says praise, thy will, forgive, lead us not to be tempted, and deliver us from evil... Does anyone know if there is a priest who would be willing to discuss this with me?

btw... the "if you don't offer suffering, it will make you spiritually sick" does not make sense because I went almost 30 yrs without doing any of the such and I was not spiritually sick but spiritually lacking. However, I feel spiritually strong and amazingly loved by God now and any lacking of that strength I would guess is due to a lack of loving family or spiritual direction. I do think that it is spiritually good to let go of your anger or sadness and let God take care of it. I was always a good loving person and only humbled and strengthened through suffering...although now it is a much deeper understanding and kind of good and love. In fact, I wonder if that was the point of my conversion...to understand that love without God is not enough to create change through love and that God's love and intercessions of saints is what is needed to answer prayers and make change through love.

God knows how I love the Catholic Church, one body of Christ and one holy and apostolic Church.

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Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

Hello again,

You are asking some serious and deep questions and I am not sure I will have the answers you want. Jesus reminds us to pick up our cross and follow Him but He does not allow us to have more than we can carry. Offering up your suffering for poor souls in purgatory or for other intentions is very noble and gives us a reason for suffering but if you do not do this you will not lose any merit. Your growing faith shines through, for just asking that question is a remarkable thing. I can see that God is at work in your life and ask you to have faith that someday He will "balance the scales" for you. Prayer is so important to me and has helped me through difficult times also. If you are a Catholic then attend mass as frequently as you can and receive holy communion for it will give you the strength to bear your cross.

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Pax et Bonum


Schultzz

God bless you SCHULTZZKOPF for that. I could talk to you for hours about how amazed I am by God and how I love and stand by our faith. Even if I do not understand it all, I know that it is right and love it : )

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Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

If I'm remembering correctly, I posted the same question as I never understood exactly what it meant and I received several replies. Perhaps you can try the search function (I never succeed at finding anything with it) or someone else more savvy will come along and find it for you. I believe Fr. Angel responded though I may be wrong but there were many fine answers in any case.

I would tell you about those fine answers if I remembered them, still struggling with the concept. We are called to follow Jesus and so that means taking up our cross when necessary to follow him. Everybody has a different cross to bear. We can rail against God for the pain or take it up gracefully, acknowledge our dependence on God and offer to God the suffering we're enduring. I think of it as essentially saying, "I don't know why you're allowing me to suffer but I accept it's your will for me and I accept it. I offer my suffering to you and in prayers for the poor souls in purgatory". But, I don't know. I'll look at the catechism later and see if that sheds any light.

Your love of God is inspiring.

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Valerie Garcia
vals1990@yahoo.com

"Listen, O my son, to the precepts of thy master, and incline the ear of thy heart, and cheerfully receive and faithfully execute the admonitions of thy loving Father, that by the toil of obedience thou mayest return to Him ....." St. Benedict

Note that this is one of the few things we can do that the angels cannot.
Luke 22:41-44

The angel could only strengthen Him. Only humans, like Simon of Cyrene, can share in His suffering.

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- Joe Kelley

Death is only a shadow across the path to Heaven.

Val,
I asked about it, too. I'm going to read the answers again slowly and see if I understand any more than I did then. It is a hard concept, for sure.

Vinca,
Try clicking on this link below and you will be able to read an old thread on the topic.
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=51143&hilit=offering+it+up

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

Val,
Was this it? viewtopic.php?f=62&t=55657&hilit Bearing Pain

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

Grace,

Thank you...that is exactly it. I'd forgotten it was prefaced by talking about my pain. It was very useful to read again. I also realized, as I often do, that I really miss some of the people who used to post regularly.

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Valerie Garcia
vals1990@yahoo.com

"Listen, O my son, to the precepts of thy master, and incline the ear of thy heart, and cheerfully receive and faithfully execute the admonitions of thy loving Father, that by the toil of obedience thou mayest return to Him ....." St. Benedict

I've been thinking about this subject a lot over the course of this fall.

I have an internet friend who isn't Catholic and whose life was nothing like what the Church teaches. In real life, we probably would never have had anything to do with each other, but such is the nature of internet friendships. If you have one thing in common, you can talk about just that one thing and ignore everything else.

She had surgery for cancer a couple of years ago and learned last winter that it was back. She had tumors on her lung, liver, and kidney, all on the left. An experimental course of chemotherapy left her miserably sick to her stomach and sapped her strength without doing anything to alleviate the cancer or even keep it in check. As the summer started, she told us that the other chemo wasn't working either, and she switched to palliative care. I'd been praying for her healing on whatever level she needed it, and especially for her soul, because she had no exposure to the things I have in terms of understanding what it means to live in the friendship of God. My prayers increased over the summer.

On the 14th of September, I had aches that I figured were part of the virus our little one had earlier that week, but that night I ached so bad that I couldn't sleep. I couldn't even lie down. There were three distinct aches, one at the top of my chest, one about half way down, and the third one adjacent to my hip, all on the left side. The similarity of that reminded me to pray for my friend, which I did, since it hurt so bad I couldn't sleep. My husband took me to the ER at 6:30. By 8am, they had checked me for a heart attack (because it's a common presentation for women having a heart attack, so take note), they'd done a portable chest x-ray, a chest cat-scan, and several blood tests, and were able to tell me I had pulmonary embolisms. Fifteen minutes later I was on heparin.

(At that point, I contacted the other mods here so they'd know what was up, but I made the choice not to mention it to the group at large. I'm doing so now because I feel it's pertinent.)

I had to spend the following week, until Friday, at the hospital, and I was still in pain that would not allow me to lie down until Tuesday, even with pain killers.

I'd been begging God to look after my friend, and the pain kept me constantly thinking of her and remembering to pray for her. Whether or not my offering up of the actual pain was of any merit, the pain was a reminder that I needed to pray. The pain from this experience may have been part of my answer from God, or maybe I'm reading things into it, but it was certainly an opportunity to remember to pray for this friend.

It's not pleasant, but heroic virtue is hard work. I can't think of a single Saint who just breezed through an easy life and sailed into Heaven without some sort of suffering. In doing so, they brought themselves and others into Heaven.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

Years back Sister Ann Shields told us that intercessory prayer requires that you accept part of the pain/penance of the one you are interceding for. Some one posted that Sister Faustina says the same in her diary. I have found that it is true.

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- Joe Kelley

Death is only a shadow across the path to Heaven.

That's a great post. God bless you!

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Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

I also found a great explanation titled "Suffering is salvific and is cause for rejoicing." at http://www.catholiccounseling.org/cc.or ... ering.aspx

'"In my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church" St. Paul's Letter to the Colossians 1:24

"Now I rejoice in my suffering for your sake" St. Paul's Letter to the Colossians 1:24

St Paul gives us the example. He shows us that suffering does not lead him to depression and despair; rather, it brings interior joy.

We will use Pope John Paul II's encyclical, Salvifici Dolores, to further examine the mystery of suffering:

"In the midst of what constitutes the psychological form of suffering there is always an experience of evil, which causes the individual to suffer." -
Man suffers on account of evil, which is a certain lack, limitation or distortion of good.
Only the suffering human being knows that he is suffering and wonders why; and he suffers in a humanly speaking still deeper way if he does not find a satisfactory answer.
And it is well-known that concerning this question there not only arise many frustrations and conflicts in the relations of man with God, but it also happens that people reach the point of actually denying God.
And even if we must use great caution in judging man's suffering as a consequence of concrete sins (this is shown precisely by the example of the just man Job), nevertheless suffering cannot be divorced from the sin of the beginnings, from what St. John calls "the sin of the world" Jn 1:29, from the sinful background of the personal actions and social processes in human history.
Suffering must serve for conversion, that is, for the rebuilding of goodness in the subject, who can recognize the divine mercy in this call to repentance.


Isaiah eloquently describes the transformation of Christ's suffering into our salvation

"When he makes himself an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days; the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand; he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities. "Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors"

Love is also the fullest source of the answer to the question of the meaning of suffering. This answer has been given by God to man in the cross of Jesus Christ.

Suffering leads to joy

The eloquence of the cross and death is, however, completed by the eloquence of the resurrection. Man finds in the resurrection a completely new light, which helps him to go forward through the thick darkness of humiliations, doubts, hopelessness and persecution.

"For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too." 2Cor 1:5

"We are ... fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed in us." Rom. 8:17-18.

"For this slight momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, because we look not to the things that are seen but to things that are unseen." 2 Cor. 4:17-18.

"But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed." 1 Pt. 4:13

Prayer to St Michael

St Michael the Archangel protect us in battle
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him we humbly pray,
And to thou o prince of heavenly hosts,
By the power of God,
Cast into hell Satan, and all the evil spirits,
Who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen. '

_________________
Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

Rose,
Are you all right now?
I am so touched by your story and the heroic offering of your sufferings for your friend. I just want tp point out that September 14th, the start of your aches and pains, was the Feast of the Exultation of the Holy Cross. In your offering, you had a share in the Lord's Passion.
God bless you.

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Pax et bonum,
Marie

JMJ

Marie,

How kind of you to ask! My status is the other interesting note to all of this. They did ultrasound on my legs and cat scans of my whole torso and couldn't find another clot or any tumors or anything that would cause clots. My blood work all came back normal. So the clots that hit my lungs sort of came from nowhere. The hemotologist says that can happen, but it's a bit unsettling. All I really care about from my end is that I can stop taking coumadin in March or April and unless it happens again I can put the whole thing behind me. Since a six-night hospital stay blew me right through the doughnut hole in our health coverage, it enabled me to start allergy shots, which weren't covered at all until that happened. So there's the silver lining in that.

It does seem as if there was some sort of intervention or that the laws of nature were nudged a bit. Maybe God was accepting my prayers on my friend's behalf and was giving me part of her suffering. I really don't feel like I have that sort of connection to Heaven, and so I'm not going to really think about those questions too much. What I do know is that at minimum it was a very constant and clear reminder to pray for someone who needed the strongest prayers I could offer. I'm going to use the faith and hope God gives us to trust that it was somehow to her credit. At some point I'll get a chance to ask my pastor about it. He brought me the sacraments right after Mass on the day I arrived at the hospital, and my son got to assist him, the first time he saw Annointing of the Sick, actually.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

And mysterious. But I'm glad that you survived the lung clots and seem to be on your way to recovery.



March or April is still a long way. I hope it will be earlier than that.



Oh, I can just imagine.. .






I'm sure God heard your prayers and accepted your offering. I really believe that no prayers or offers of sufferings go to waste, as it unites us to the suffering of Our Lord on the cross.



How wonderful that you were anointed by your pastor while at the hospital - and with your son assisting yet! God bless you, Rose. I'll be praying for your complete recovery starting tonight at adoration.

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Pax et bonum,
Marie

JMJ

Thank you again, Marie. You are most kind. I will pray for you as well.

_________________
Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

Tiffany,
Thank you for that.

I've also come across this, which looks very useful: http://www.catholicfidelity.com/suffering/
They are all audio downloads, which I myself don't like, but I have heard on EWTN some of those discussions between Dr. Von Hildebrand and Fr. Pacwa, and they are very good. They are probably on You * Tube.

I tried searching one that appealed to me, and lo and behold, it was available in text form, so you can try that, too.
This is what I am pondering currently:
God's Answer to Suffering by Dr. Peter Kreeft.

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

Came across something from Msgr Benson that spoke to me and maybe it will to others.
~ Christ in the Church: THE CROSS

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla