Catholic Online Forum

Britain will announce plans next week to allow gay marriages in churches and other religious buildings, although the prime minister insists no faith group will be forced to hold them.

However, amid strong opposition from the Church of England and Roman Catholics, as well as many members of the ruling Conservative party, Ms Miller will stress that no religious groups will be forced to conduct gay weddings.

Speaking to reporters on a visit to a car factory, prime minister David Cameron said: "I'm a massive supporter of marriage and I don't want gay people to be excluded from a great institution.

"But let me be absolutely 100 per cent clear, if there is any church or any synagogue or any mosque that doesn't want to have a gay marriage it will not, absolutely must not, be forced to hold it.

"That is absolutely clear in the legislation.

A Roman Catholic bishop has delivered an extraordinary attack on David Cameron by accusing him of being “devoid of moral competence” and comparing him to Nero, the brutal Roman emperor who persecuted Christians.

Joseph Devine, the Bishop of Motherwell, said he considered the Prime Minister “out of his depth” and Christians cannot trust him given the “contradiction” between his statements on religious matters and his actions...

Bishop Devine used his letter to accuse Mr Cameron of claiming to be an advocate for Christian values while undermining freedom of conscience and family life.

“You vacillate, ambivalent about the role you wish to perform – the disciple of David or Nero,” he wrote, referring to the ECHR row over the cross.

“With such a contradiction between your statements and actions, on what basis can you expect anyone – Christians in particular – to trust or respect you?”...

Accusing the Prime Minister of acting with “indecent haste” to legalise gay marriage, the bishop added: “I suspect it is only a matter of time before you go one step further and outlaw the teaching of Christian doctrine on sexual morality on the grounds of discrimination.”...

“So far as the Roman Catholic Church … is concerned, you are out of your depth. We will take no finger-prodding lectures from anyone or any group devoid of moral competence.”

What happens when a Catholic priest refuses to "marry" a homosexual couple in his church? How soon before a lawsuit is filed?

The British government has expanded its push to legalize same-sex marriage to include allowing same-sex couples to marry in churches...

A bill to legalize same-sex marriage will be presented to Parliament in the New Year with the aim of becoming law by 2014. The government has been saying it would push for same-sex marriage in civil offices and hotels, but including churches widens the scope of the legislation.

The Catholic Church has consistently argued that the government is not able to offer guarantees of religious freedom because such legislation is susceptible both to amendments in Parliament and to challenges under equality laws in the European Court of Human Rights.

In response to Tuesday’s announcement London’s two Catholic Archbishops, Vincent Nichols of Westminster and Peter Smith of Southwark, released a statement strongly opposing the bill. “The meaning of marriage matters,” they said. “It derives that meaning from its function as the foundation of the family.”

Noting that “The government has chosen to ignore the views of over 600,000 people who signed a petition calling for the current definition of marriage to stay,” the Archbishops went on to criticise the process undertaken to advance the Bill.

Archbishops Nichols and Smith concluded their statement with an appeal to “everyone who cares about upholding the meaning of marriage in civil law to make their views known to their MPs clearly, calmly and forcefully, and without impugning the motives of others . . . It is not too late to stop this Bill.”

The Archbishop of Southwark, the Most Rev Peter Smith, spoke of a desire to “mobilise” opposition in the Church.

He urged them to capitalize on the decision by all three main party leaders to allow free votes on the matter and increase pressure on their local MPs to halt such a “fundamental change in the law”.

A million postcards, designed for Catholics to complete and send to their MP asking them to vote against the Government’s plan, were distributed at masses over the weekend.

The issue to due to come up for a vote in the Commons as early as February 5.

The Government’s “Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill” was published on Friday outlining details of how a raft of existing marriage laws are to be amended to include same-sex couples.

The only surprise in the bill was a clause making it impossible for gay or lesbian people who marry to divorce on grounds of adultery.

Lawyers and MPs said the distinction created inequality between heterosexual and homosexual couples in the divorce courts and could ultimately lead to he abolition of the centuries-old concept of adultery.

It came after Government legal experts failed to agree what constitutes “sex” between people of the same gender.

Gay couples will also be barred from having their marriage annulled on grounds of non-consummation for the same reason.

Previously the Coalition had signalled that the matter would be left to the courts to decide, potentially leaving the issue uncertain for years.

But officials drafting the bill sidestepped the issue saying simply that adultery would only apply to people of different sexes.

Opponents say the decision shows how gay marriage could open the way for a wider reassessment of marriage laws, something they claimed could be a potential “Pandora’s Box”.

It is deeply regrettable but not unexpected that the Government has chosen to proceed with introducing a Bill to change the definition of marriage. Alongside many people of all faiths and none we will be vigorously opposing the Bill.

Marriage has an identity distinct from any other relationship, no matter how much love or commitment may be involved. Marriage is and always has been the union of one man and one woman, for love and mutual support, open to procreation. Marriage has, over the centuries, been the enduring public recognition of this commitment and it has rightly been recognised as unique and worthy of legal protection. It furthers the common good of society because it promotes a unique relationship which benefits children. The fundamental problem with the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill is that it will radically alter the meaning of marriage for everyone and therefore undermine the common good. This is what is at stake. The Bill also raises very serious questions especially about religious freedom and freedom of expression, the effect on teaching in schools, and the work of chaplains and others with religious convictions involved in the delivery of public services.

There is no electoral mandate for this Bill and last year’s consultation process was shambolic. We welcome the promise of a free vote for MPs, and hope the Bill will be defeated. We will be producing a briefing on the Bill once we have studied it in detail with our legal advisers.

Already there is an unintended consequence, a rather bizarre one at that -


People still laugh at the apocryphal joke about the PM being too embarrassed to explain to Queen Victoria... What then will future generations make of this?

Since it has now been agreed by all to allow a conscience vote, there is now a reasonable chance this Bill may be defeated.

Not a problem for the Church, yet. Maybe next year.

I could be wrong but I do not think it will be a problem because of the presence of a high number (and growing) of Moslems in Britain.
I think that the fear of what Moslems would do if you force them to agree to "perform gay marriage" will protect the rest of British society.

Assuming the same rules that apply to Muslims apply to Christians especially Catholics, this is not always the case.

You think they will make a law and exempt Moslems from it?

If that will be the case, then I tip my hat to these small Moslem communities that are able to so strongly influence (in a way run) countries and governments to their own liking.

You think they will make a law and exempt Moslems from it?

We have preferential treatment for Muslims in the US...

Bob,



Are you able to give two examples? Would American Moslems agree with you?

Bob,

Hasn't any Constitutional challenge been made (First Amendment)?

Senior local Conservatives are urging the prime minister to delay any parliamentary decision on gay marriage until after the next election.

Meanwhile, the Sunday Telegraph reports some 180 Conservative MPs, including six whips and up to four members of the cabinet, are ready to defy the prime minister's plan to legalise gay weddings.

The letter to Prime Minister David Cameron, signed by 23 current and recent Conservative constituency chairmen, warns about the impact of the plans on party morale and electoral appeal.

Writing "specifically out of our concerns about the growing discord within the Conservative Party over this issue", they also say "resignations from the party are beginning to multiply".

They say the decision for the vote has been made without adequate consultation of members and that the bill is being pushed through in a way they find "extremely distasteful".

"More time should be afforded to debate an issue of such gravity… and a final decision on the matter should be postponed until after the 2015 general election when the public would have had the chance to vote on a clear manifesto pledge," they write.

I can guarantee that would not be allowed around here if a Christian church wanted to block off traffic five times a day.

FYI, happens every Saturday and Sunday around here. <shrug>

The new Archbishop of Canterbury says he is standing by the Church of England's opposition to the proposed introduction of gay marriage.

The archbishop spoke after being confirmed into the role in a legal ceremony at St Paul's Cathedral.

He replaced Lord Williams, 62, who held the post for 10 years.

MPs vote on legalising gay weddings on Tuesday, but the Most Reverend Justin Welby says he has "no idea" how the vote will go.

MPs have approved same-sex marriage in England and Wales in a key Commons vote, despite the opposition of almost half the Conservative MPs.

The Commons voted in favour of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill, by 400 to 175, a majority of 225, at the end of a full day's debate on the bill.

Prime Minister David Cameron has described the move as "an important step forward" that strengthens society.

Early voting lists show that 136 Conservatives opposed the bill.

Of the remaining Conservative MPs, 127 were in favour, 35 did not vote, and five registered an abstention by voting both in favour and against.

Farage also suggested the solution to a question that has puzzled even supporters of the bill, namely what David Cameron’s motivation was for suddenly, “out of the blue,” bringing the change forward so aggressively when economic issues and issues of Britain’s sovereignty are foremost in the minds of most voters.

Farage, the leading Euroskeptic MEP, said that Cameron was only taking orders from his political superiors in Brussels. “Same-sex marriage” legislation, UKIP said today, is being driven by an upcoming EU proposal, which is set to become law later this year.

The Berlinguer Report has called for all marriages and civil contracts conducted in any EU country to become legally binding in all other member states. The proposal is due to be voted through the EU Parliament this November and is expected to pass.