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I was just pondering this today.

Personally I have a tendency to not want to go along with the crowd. Now, I am not talking about important matters of faith or morals, more of things that are rather inconsequential.

A few examples:

If it is trendy to have long hair, I will probably wear mine short. At least if I had any I would.
If 90% of people own or want a smart phone, I will be more determined to hang onto my dumb phone.
If everybody believes you are really hopelessly backwards and out of touch because you don't twitter, I will resist.

Of course, none of these things (and many more) are of any real consequence. So, am I just trying to be different out of a sense of pride? Because I want to feel superior to all those sheeple who follow the trends?

Things that make me go, "hmmm..."

Pride? Maybe. But unless your pride leads you to sin I would just chalk it up to not wanting to be the same as everybody else.

So, am I just trying to be different out of a sense of pride? Because I want to feel superior to all those sheeple who follow the trends?

Sometimes having short hair simply means you like short hair.

I was just pondering this today.

Personally I have a tendency to not want to go along with the crowd. Now, I am not talking about important matters of faith or morals, more of things that are rather inconsequential.

A few examples:

If it is trendy to have long hair, I will probably wear mine short. At least if I had any I would.
If 90% of people own or want a smart phone, I will be more determined to hang onto my dumb phone.
If everybody believes you are really hopelessly backwards and out of touch because you don't twitter, I will resist.

Of course, none of these things (and many more) are of any real consequence. So, am I just trying to be different out of a sense of pride? Because I want to feel superior to all those sheeple who follow the trends?

Things that make me go, "hmmm..."

It's a good thing not to be a sheep...

Val,



...and an even better one not to be a lemming.

Archbishop Sheen offers eight manifestations of Pride:
1. Atheism, which denies our dependence upon God.
2. Intellectual Vanity, which thinks it encompasses all knowledge.
3. Superficiality, which judges others by their appearance, dress, wealth.
4. Snobbery, which sneers at others to support its own superiority
5. Vainglory, which seeks fame in the trappings of society.
6. Presumptuousness, which causes one to value oneself too highly, to seek rewards rather than to make a contribution.
7. Exaggerated Sensitiveness, To be unable to hear of ones faults.

It's a good thing not to be a sheep...

It seems as though Jesus was well disposed towards sheep.

Val wrote:
It's a good thing not to be a sheep...
I don't know. It seems as though Jesus was well disposed towards sheep.

I know a lot of people, sometimes myself included, who take the attitude that "you can't tell me what to do!" This can be in relation to societal conventions or even government. For example, rules about how you must dress, where you can smoke, or requiring you wear a helmet or a seat-belt.

Is it possible to be truly humble and still have that kind of attitude?

I have a far more important issue to discuss with you. RE: Your cake picture, which piece is yours?


Effie

Humility is not about groveling, or submitting, or self-flagellation.

It is the correct assessment of one's position in the scheme of things.

If Bob D. Builder thinks he's a better architect than Rube Goldberg, and everybody in the firm agrees with him, it's not lack of humility to think he's better. If he didn't think so he wouldn't have the nerve to design that new children's hospital. But if he thinks he's the best architect in the world, that's pride, and his design for a 150 story skyscraper will be rejected.

Humility is not about groveling, or submitting, or self-flagellation.

It is the correct assessment of one's position in the scheme of things.

There is that phrase again. What do you mean?

Then why do people do these things?

There is that phrase again. What do you mean?

Why do people do these things? As always, some do it because they are ignorant, or someone taught them incorrectly that this is what humility is. Others do it because they are prideful people.

Of course it may be that their own assessment of their talents and abilities is more realistic than the person flattering them.

If we happen to be contrary because we are doing right, that is fine because the interest is in doing right. If we love God and neighbor and that puts us in opposition to others, it is a side effect, not the objective. If our OBJECTIVE is to be contrary or different, if our goal is to distinguish ourselves, if we gain pleasure from doing something other than what others do, I think that is pride.

I can't remember exactly when, but it was probably 30 years ago that Pope John Paul II said that Catholics are called to be counter-cultural. I remember thinking at the time that what he said was pretty crazy. Now I know he was absolutely right.

So, if one bows before communion because it shows more respect to God than a nod of the head, or one kneels after communion and gives thanks rather than stand to present some image of uniformity is that being sinfully prideful?

Yes, Bob, that's precisely what we're saying.

In fact, it's just being disobedient to our bishops, who have requested uniformity in our reverence to Christ.

The sixth degree of humility
is that a monk be content with the poorest and worst of everything,
and that in every occupation assigned him he consider himself a bad and worthless workman,
saying with the Prophet, "I am brought to nothing and I am without understanding;
I have become as a beast of burden before You, and I am always with You" (Ps. 72[73]:22-23).

The seventh degree of humility
is that he consider himself lower and of less account than anyone else,
and this not only in verbal protestation but also with the most heartfelt inner conviction,
humbling himself and saying with the Prophet,
"But I am a worm and no man, the scorn of men and the outcast of the people" (Ps. 21[22]:7).
"After being exalted, I have been humbled and covered with confusion" (Pa. 87:16).
And again, "It is good for me that You have humbled me,
that I may learn Your commandments" (Ps. 118[119]:71,73).

Catholic texts view humility as annexed to the cardinal virtue of temperance.[3] It is viewed as a potential part of temperance because temperance includes all those virtues that restrain or express the inordinate movements of our desires or appetites.[3]

Humility is defined as, "A quality by which a person considering his own defects has a humble opinion of himself and willingly submits himself to God and to others for God's sake." St. Bernard defines it as, "A virtue by which a man knowing himself as he truly is, abases himself. Jesus Christ is the ultimate definition of Humility."[3]

Humility was a virtue extolled by Saint Francis of Assisi, and this form of Franciscan piety led to the artistic development of the Madonna of humility first used by them for contemplation.[4][5] The Virgin of humility sits on the ground, or upon a low cushion, unlike the Enthroned Madonna representations.[6] This style of painting spread quickly through Italy and by 1375 examples began to appear in Spain, France and Germany and it became the most popular among the styles of the early Trecento artistic period.[7]

St. Thomas Aquinas, a 13th century philosopher and theologian in the Scholastic tradition, defines humility similarly as "the virtue of humility" that "consists in keeping oneself within one's own bounds, not reaching out to things above one, but submitting to one's superior" (Summa Contra Gent., bk. IV, ch. lv, tr. Joseph Rickaby).

Humility is said to be a fit recipient of grace; according to the words of St. James, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble" (Proverbs 3:34, 1Peter 5:5, James 4:6).[3]

"True humility" is distinctly different from "false humility" which consists of deprecating one's own sanctity, gifts, talents, and accomplishments for the sake of receiving praise or adulation from others, as personified by the fictional character Uriah Heep created by Charles Dickens. In this context legitimate humility comprises the following behaviors and attitudes:

1.Submitting to God and legitimate authority
2.Recognizing virtues and talents that others possess, particularly those that surpass one's own, and giving due honor and, when required, obedience
3.Recognizing the limits of one's talents, ability, or authority; and, not reaching for what is beyond one's grasp
As illustrated in the person of Moses, who leads the nation of Hebrews out of slavery in Egypt and to the “Promised Land”, humility is a sign of Godly strength and purpose, not weakness. Of this great leader, the Bible states, “(For Moses was a man exceeding meek above all men that dwelt upon earth)" (Numbers 12:3).

The vices opposed to humility are: (A) pride (by reason or defect). (B) a too great obsequiousness or abjection of oneself; this would be considered an excess of humility,and could easily be derogatory to one's office or holy character; or it might serve only to pamper pride in others, by unworthy flattery, which would occasion their sins of tyranny, arbitrariness, and arrogance. The virtue of humility may not be practiced in any external way that would occasion vices in others.[3]

Amongst the benefits of humility described in the Bible are honor, wisdom, eternal life, unity, rewards in heaven and others. In the Bible, an exhortation to humility is found in Philippians 2:1-17.

Also in 1Peter 2:23, concerning Jesus Christ's behavior in general and submission to unjust torture and execution in particular: "Who, when he was reviled, did not revile: when he suffered, he threatened not: but delivered himself to him that judged him justly."

Perhaps getting away from the original question, but this is from the Rule of St. Benedict:

In fact, it's just being disobedient to our bishops, who have requested uniformity in our reverence to Christ. But, of course, we only have to obey them when they agree with us, right?

So, am I just trying to be different out of a sense of pride? Because I want to feel superior to all those sheeple who follow the trends?

Things that make me go, "hmmm..."

I recall Cardinal Arinze speaking to the issue and saying that norms in other countries should not be so strictly enforced as to prevent the faithful from continuing to use postures approved by Rome.

Cardinal Mahony has written that he will allow priests in his diocese not to follow the Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum.

The Instruction was published by the Vatican on 23 April 2004. It included:

"[106.] However, the pouring of the Blood of Christ after the consecration from one vessel to another is completely to be avoided, lest anything should happen that would be to the detriment of so great a mystery."

Cardinal Arinze concluded this Instruction with "All things to the contrary notwithstanding." The instruction says that Pope John Paul II "ordered it to be published and to be observed immediately by all concerned".

But Cardinal Mahony has written: "Because our practice has become an Archdiocesan custom of over seven years, with both the Catholic faithful and the ministers accustomed to this practice, I am willing to grant exceptions to no. 106 of Redemptionis Sacramentum for legitimate reasons, such as the following: where the altar table is too small to accommodate many chalices, thus creating a greater danger for spillage; and where the number of chalices is so large that they would visibly detract from the important sign of One Bread and One Cup, as well as increase the danger of tipping over the chalices."

"and I'm finding it in unexpected places in my life."