Catholic Online Forum

I'm trying to work this through. If a young person denies key aspects of the faith, should they be given the sacrament of Confirmation? What aspects are "key" enough that they should be denied as a result?

The existence of God?
The Resurrection?
The Divinity of Christ?
The Immaculate Conception?
The Seven Deadly Sins?
That artificial insemination is a sin?

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Jeff Stevens

Dr. Peters deals with the question here in the context of someone's advocacy of gay marriage.

In my opinion, which I believe agrees with Dr. Peters, if a candidate for Confirmation is unrepentantly and publicly advocating or living against a moral or doctrinal teaching of the Church (i.e. he isn't doing this out of ignorance and the dissent is out in the open), then the sacrament should be denied on the basis that the candidate is not properly disposed to receiving it.

There is also a question of validity when, say, you have a 13 year-old who doesn't want to get confirmed, but mom and dad tell him he's going to go through the rite with his class or he's going to be sorry.

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Dean
Most people's sense of history goes back to breakfast time - Benjamin Netanyahu

Now you did it, Dean. I was hoping to avoid the specific situation. You know how we can get fixated on such things.

That said, Dr. Peters' comments are probably too valuable to overlook. Thank you for the link.

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Jeff Stevens

Thinkers should be able to jump from the specific situation to the general principles that are applicable, and everywhere in between, without focusing on that one issue. We both know Dr. Peters is using the issue that prompted his blog post to address the larger issue of what "properly disposed" means.

Some people speak about a "hierarchy of doctrine," as if it's ok to dissent from doctrines lower in the hierarchy (which not coincidentally always seem to be the moral teachings on sex and marriage, or the doctrinal teaching on the ordination of women) as long as you are in agreement with the "biggies." My problem with this hierarchy is it seems the line between those essential things and the "non-essentials" is rather zig-zag and arbitrary.

Which brings me again to the conclusion that a candidate for confirmation is declaring he is prepared to witness to the faith that was handed on from Christ to the Apostles and is continued to be handed on to the Church through the Holy Spirit. If a candidate is publicly witnessing to something contrary, which he knows is contrary, then he is giving good indication that he is not prepared to witness to the faith.

There need to be consequences for our actions before our particular judgment, in order to warn us that we are on the wrong path and to give us time to rethink how we are living.

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Dean
Most people's sense of history goes back to breakfast time - Benjamin Netanyahu

Today children are programmed by the secular media and from what is being taught in schools. It often conflicts with what is taught at home. Watching a series on the Saints' lives with the young person online or from a DVD might evoke a youngster's curiosity enough to re-germinate the seeds planted earlier in their life. Many saints' lives would not be considered "normal" but the evidence is real. Most people regard incidents from saints' lives as fascinating. Of course these saints were inspired from God's love and their faith was strengthened as a result. It might be the "missing" piece they need to believe instead of trying to get them to accept Church rules and teachings just because you say they have to. Many children at that age begin to rebel and rationalize most things from an idealistic viewpoint. Unfortunately today's "ideals" radically depart from Church teaching. Also, you may want to consider taking youngsters to a Marian shrine such as Fatima or Lourdes or even Medjugorge as these places often have supernatural occurrences and other young people involved in prayer and devotion . Costly? Perhaps. But how can you place a monetary value on souls? And lastly, looking at ourselves honestly at our culpability in the failure of our children to get what we think they should have is painful, yet essential. Admitting failure may be difficult yet has to be the first step in finding a better plan for our children and ourselves. Does any of this may sense to you?

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Pax et Bonum


Schultzz

It's been some years now, but for along while I was the Confirmation instructor, along with my wife, at our parish. When I was instructing the students were mostly 8-10 grade a few a little older, and on rare occasions a couple were younger, we worked a 2 year program, with two concurrent classes meeting every other week.

Then our great DRE retired, and some of the parents wanted a younger age and a shorter program, so when the new DRE capitulated, I told him to find a new instructor.

While I was teaching at the very beginning of the course I would excuse the parents and tell all of the new students, that they didn't have to be there, that yes I would be giving homework and yes they would have to give presentations, and yes they would have to 1st prove to me they were ready to be confirmed, and then they'd have to prove to the pastor they were ready.

Every class I'd have one or two students "opt out" mom and/or dad would come screaming in to me, the DRE or the pastor, we would allow the kids an opportunity to "opt back in" but if they still wanted out it was determined that they were not ready to be confirmed and they could come the next class.

We had, I think, a really great program I never followed a prepared text, but I knew what the book said. We'd discuss abortion,birth control, cheating in school etc. I'd try to find something in the news each week, and if it was local even better, that was applicable and then the discussion was always how should a Catholic handle this, and why?

I cheated, I found many of the hints for discussion right here on the Forum, and the Libraries were great for finding study materials.

We had a big overstuffed chair that someone donated, and we always pushed it into the discussion circle and it stayed empty to remind us that when two or more gathered in His name He was present, so the empty chair was His. One time our then elderly pastor decided to visit and he sat in the chair, he got scolded by the kids.


I guess what I'm saying here is that Confirmation is important and certain knowledge has to be imparted, but teenagers get enough classroom at school. Catholicism is real and they need to see it as a way of life,not an hour on Sunday morning.

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Bob C

BobC:

You have a good point about the kids needing practical knowledge of their faith, the kind of practical knowledge that they live by and helps them face moral questions that come up in current events.

Most confirmation programs work along the lines of a study program, with a time limit. It is felt that once you study your material and do your time, let's say two years, then you "deserve" or have a "right" to the sacrament.

In our parish, we have a meeting with the parents before the kids begin their confirmation preparation, and we emphasize what it is that we expect: to know the doctrine of Catholic faith and morals and be prepared to live this out, to participate in the Mass and go to confession, to do service in the parish and set Christian example at church, school, and home. We make it clear that after two years some young people may not yet be ready and in that case we would delay confirmation, because all the sacraments should be received when the candidate is ready, not when a certain time has passed. The parents sign a "Disciple Agreement" and it is spelled out clearly that the Church, not the student or family, determines the rules of the sacraments and the moment of readiness.

There are a few very exceptional young people who have diligently attended Mass faithfully and have studied their catechism and been involved already in the parish. In that case, based upon the same principle of readiness, they are only in the program for one year and are not put through the same tests because their readiness is already attested in the community.

In the case of a young man posting Facebook support of gay marriage, I would have told him we were going to confirm him, but not now because we needed to work through issues of Church teaching. Again, it is important to avoid the notion of "dates" and "deadlines" and focus on "readiness." That way, someone is not "turned down" or "rejected" for confirmation but rather you tell them you need to work with them more and at the moment of their readiness they will be confirmed.

So you leave the ball in their court. They cannot complain you "rejected" them, because you didn't. If they walk away, you make it clear that you were planning to confirm them, but they quit on you before they were ready.

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Sincerely in Christ,
Fr. Angel

Father,

Good point.

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

As an aside, there are some similarities in sacraments; Marriage & Confirmation share some common requirements...

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

here is the core...

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. AMEN.

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Aaron Tremblay M.I.
Knight of the Immaculata

Aaron,

Yes, of course. However, what does it mean to "believe in" something? Simply that it exists? As in, "I believe that the holy Catholic Church exists?" Or does it mean, "I believe in what is said about the holy Catholic Church," including her authority to teach authentically on faith and morals and to require obedience to her governance? Obviously, to "believe in" cannot mean belief in existence only.

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Dean
Most people's sense of history goes back to breakfast time - Benjamin Netanyahu

Nice avatar Dean.

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Pax et Bonum


Schultzz