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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 19:54 
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The Israeli military has launched a major offensive against Palestinian militants in Gaza, killing the military commander of Hamas in an air strike and threatening a ground invasion.

The targeted strike against Ahmed al-Jabari drew a furious reaction from Hamas, which said the Jewish state had opened "the gates of hell".



"The gates of hell". A very telling phrase.

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 07:09 
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Of course,
the HAMAS people "forgot" to mention,
that Israel did this in response to HAMAS sending dozens of rockets into Israei.

It's always that way.

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 14:52 
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Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
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The Israeli military has launched a major offensive against Palestinian militants in Gaza, killing the military commander of Hamas in an air strike and threatening a ground invasion.

The targeted strike against Ahmed al-Jabari drew a furious reaction from Hamas, which said the Jewish state had opened "the gates of hell".



"The gates of hell". A very telling phrase.


Israel waited with hope that Obama would not be reelected. They wait no more...

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 15:01 
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Daniel,

Although the President's relations with the Israeli Prime Minister are a little strained, I don't think it's related to the US election. Much less do I believe, as has been cynically suggested in the moron, sorry commercial media, that it has anything to do with next January's elections in Israel. It has everything to do with the fact that the new rocket launchers so generously provided to Hamas by Iran have a greater range. Hamas are now able to lob into Tel Aviv.

In the exchange yesterday an Hamas rocket is reported to have landed just outside Tel Aviv - no one hurt. (The IDF is yet to confirm this.)

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 15:05 
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James,

How is the media about this in Australia and Americans, what do you think of media coverage here (and of course, other countries are welcome to chime in)? I posted on facebook a picture and caption about Israel that mentioned hundreds and in total, thousands of rockets being launched against Israel that the media ignored. My brother responded that it was too covered in the media. My response was that it wasn't covered in the media until Israel retaliated and it was the same before the last war...Israel had hundreds of rockets launched against them and then were criticized around the world when they finally got fed up. I haven't gotten a response from my brother yet. Sometimes I know he acknowledges a fact when the entire thread dies.

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 15:20 
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Val,

It varies. The coverage by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation is objective and professional. Ditto BBC. Ditto Al Jazeera. The coverage by the commercial television networks is woeful.

That applies not only to this issue, but just about everything.

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 15:54 
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Two rockets fired from the Gaza Strip have targeted Israel's commercial capital Tel Aviv, raising the stakes in the escalating showdown between Israel and Gaza's Hamas rulers.

One of the rockets landed on the southern outskirts of the city while the other landed in the sea, but the attacks sparked panic in the coastal city, with television images showing people lying on the ground outside the defence ministry, their hands over their heads as sirens wailed.



Quote:
One of the rockets fired towards Tel Avi landed in Rishon LeZion, a satellite city about 15 kilometres from the CBD. Another hit the sea just south of the city.

It is the closest a Palestinian rocket has ever come to Israel's largest city, which last came under rocket or missile fire when it was targeted by Iraqi Scud missiles in 1991.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-16/r ... ns/4375260

Quote:
Rockets fired from Gaza continued to streak towards towns and communities in southern Israel, with three Israeli civilians killed on Thursday when a rocket hit their home in Kiryat Malachi, 30km from Gaza.

And Israeli officials this morning said that more than 70 targets within Gaza had been hit in strikes which Israel says are aimed at the militant networks responsible for firing rockets at Israel.


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 16:25 
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Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
Val,

It varies. The coverage by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation is objective and professional. Ditto BBC. Ditto Al Jazeera. The coverage by the commercial television networks is woeful.

That applies not only to this issue, but just about everything.

As always, James is convinced that socialized news media is superior to news media which enjoys freedom from government direction.

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 16:41 
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Jeff,

I've no idea what "socialised media" might be. I've no objection to media free from government direction; how could I have since the ABC and the BBC are both included in that class? My objection is to the vulgarity, shallowness and moronic inaccuracy of "news" organisations that are simply businesses that seek to pander to the baser instincts of persons of inferior education and culture.

This might give you some idea:

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transc ... 626141.htm

(You might remember that in another thread I chuckled that what the ABC had described as "a 19th century Spanish fresco" had been described by the Nine Network as "an old mural". That's the difference, not government.)

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 16:56 
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Jeff,

...and who could forget this:

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transc ... 266976.htm

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 17:05 
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Socialized news. News run by the government. It is quite obvious.

He who pays the bills makes the rules.

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 17:07 
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Jeff,

Neither the ABC nor the BBC are run by governments.

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 18:41 
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I'll betcha this Hamas launching rockets from the Gaza strip is about Iran's atom bomb.

Hamas wants to start a war with Israel.
The United States will wring its hands, "Oh woe! Oh woe!", but do nothing.
Obama will distance himself from Israel.
Politicians will hide under their desks as usual.
With its friends evaporating, Israel will lose its nerve and not attack Iran's nuclear enrichment sites.
Iran gets the atom bomb, with all that means for extremist Islam influence in the Middle East.

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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 18:57 
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Norman,

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I'll betcha this Hamas launching rockets from the Gaza strip is about Iran's atom bomb.



Ah, no. Hamas has been launching rockets into Israel for rather some time now.

Quote:
Rockets have been launched from Gaza into Israel continually throughout 2012. There were 92 rockets attacks in October alone.[22] Qassam rocket attacks took place on 4, 6 and 9 November.[23][24][25] On 5 November, Israeli soldiers shot dead a 20-year-old Palestinian who ignored Israeli warning shots and neared the Gaza–Israel border fence. According to the Palestinians the man had learning difficulties.[26][27] On the 5th of November a Palestinian road side bomb exploded and Israeli soldiers were injured. In response, on the 8th of November, the IDF made a short-range incursion into Gaza after finding more bombs along the border, leading to a gunfight with the Popular Resistance Committees.[28] During the clash, a 13-year-old Palestinian boy was killed by the crossfire, some reports claim that Palestinian militants used him as a human shield.[29][30] Later that day, Palestinian militants detonated an explosives-packed tunnel they had dug on the border, wounding four Israeli soldiers.[31][32][30]

On 10 November, militants fired an anti-tank missile at an IDF Jeep on routine patrol near Israel's side of the border, wounding four soldiers one of whom is in critical condition.[33][32][34][35][36] The IDF shelled the source of the fire and pre-chosen targets in the Sa'ajiya area. Hamas spokesman Ashraf al-Qidra said that four teenagers were killed.[37][35] Militants then fired at least 30 rockets and several mortars into Israel, prompting Israelis in the area to seek shelter.[28][38]

The sides continued to exchange fire for several days after the incident. Militants fired more than 150 rockets, striking Israeli homes. Several Israelis were wounded, including two whose car was hit.[34][39] Schools across southern Israel were closed.[40] Israel carried out further airstrikes in Gaza, killing six militants.[35]

In the days before the operation, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak said that "Israel's reaction will come at the appropriate time". However, following a cabinet meeting in the morning before the operation, Minister Benny Begin said that "the current exchange of hostilities seems to be over". These mixed messages; according to one Israeli analyst, the expected diplomatic repercussions from Egypt and the risks of a war on the eve of the Israeli elections are three factors designed to foster a laissez-faire atmosphere for Gaza's Palestinian leaders.[vague][41]

On 12 November, Hamas and PIJ officials indicated a willingness to discuss a ceasefire. A PIJ spokesman said, "The ball is in Israel's court. The resistance factions will observe Israel's behavior on the ground and will act accordingly." However, both Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad continued firing rockets into civilian areas in Israel.[42] Two rockets were fired into Israel during the day. Israel asked the UN Security Council to berate the rocket attacks, with Barak saying that Israel "would not accept the harm to daily life of our civilians".

The operation began about 16h (Israel time) with an airstrike targeting Ahmed Jabari, chief of Hamas's military wing.[44] Osama Hamdan, a Hamas representative in Lebanon, said the airstrike also killed Jabari's son. The IDF released a video of this airstrike.[45] This was followed by Israeli strikes against 20 Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip, including underground rocket launchers and an ammunition warehouse stocking Iranian-made, long-range Fajr-5 missiles.[46] The IDF said that many of the targeted weapon stashes were in residential areas and evidenced "the pattern of Hamas to use the population in Gaza as human shields."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pillar_of_Cloud

Quote:
The IDF made widespread use of Twitter and a liveblog to give an up-to-date account of its operations. The military wing of Hamas also made use of Twitter, publicising its rocket and mortar attacks and tweeting when Israeli casualties were reported.[59][60] Foreign Policy magazine labeled this effort a "milestone in military communications."[61][60] The IDF's Twitter account gained more than 50,000 new followers in 24 hours.[62]

Hamas were accused of using pictures of children that have been injured or killed in Syria and presenting them in the social media as Palestinian dead. One of its tweets about the Israeli strikes contained a picture of a dead girl that previously been posted on the Syrians & Friends Facebook page in October.[63][64][65] Another photo of explosions that was uploaded to the Facebook page affiliated with Hamas appeared to be digitally altered.[59] There were suggestions that a Gazan man had feigned injury, being seen carried by Palestinians in apparent discomfort, and yet moments later walking on his own


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 19:12 
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I'll betcha this Hamas launching rockets from the Gaza strip is about Iran's atom bomb.



Ah, no. Hamas has been launching rockets into Israel for rather some time now.




? :-| ? :-| ? :-| ? :-| ? :-|

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PostPosted: 16 Nov 2012 11:35 
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Who_started_this? wrote:
I'll betcha this Hamas launching rockets from the Gaza strip is about Iran's atom bomb....


Hamas should be as worried as Israel about an atom bomb. The effects don't stop at arbitrary borders.

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PostPosted: 16 Nov 2012 11:38 
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Oh dear. A ground invasion of the Gaza Strip. Not a pretty sight. I hope that can be averted.

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PostPosted: 16 Nov 2012 20:53 
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Who_started_this? wrote:
I'll betcha this Hamas launching rockets from the Gaza strip is about Iran's atom bomb....


Hamas should be as worried as Israel about an atom bomb. The effects don't stop at arbitrary borders.


You're right, Joe, but when have terrorists ever acted rationally?

They want power.
Power for what? They don't know anymore than the man in the moon, but it doesn't matter.
They want power.

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PostPosted: 16 Nov 2012 21:20 
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fr_sotelo wrote:
Oh dear. A ground invasion of the Gaza Strip. Not a pretty sight. I hope that can be averted.


Father,

I would say that the ball has been and remains in Obama's court. Unless, Obama changes his neutral stance that all but gives lip service to the repeatedly demonstrated clear and present danger that Islam represents to Israel this conflict premised upon the legitimate self defense of Israel will necessarily escalate.

The Arab Spring that Obama promoted has destabilized the region to the point where the US is most likely the only player that can prevent any escalation now...

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PostPosted: 17 Nov 2012 20:33 
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Hacking group Anonymous has launched a series of cyber attacks against websites in Israel.

Data bombardments briefly knocked some sites offline and led to others being defaced with pro-Palestinian messages.

The OpIsrael campaign was launched by the hacking collective in retaliation for attacks on Gaza.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20356757

Quote:
Hours after the statement was launched, Anonymous posted a list of 87 sites it claimed had been defaced or attacked as part of OpIsrael. Many of the sites had their homepages replaced with messages in support of Hamas and the Palestinians.

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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2012 09:22 
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It's interesting that no government in the Middle East that isn't made up of insane people could want Iran to get the bomb, except Iran itself. None of them would want Iran to have a stronger voice in world politics then themselves.

So the Middle East governments are in the position of needing Israel :P to stop Iran's bomb, if they can. How's that for irony! :roll:

Probably why that hasn't been any saber rattling on the part of Saudi Arabia and the other countries.

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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2012 14:54 
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Norman,

You've not seen the interviews given by the Emir of Qatar on Al Jazeera I take it?

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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2012 19:44 
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More than 44 million hacking attempts have been made on Israeli government web sites since Wednesday when Israel began its Gaza air strikes, the government says.

Speaking ahead of the weekly cabinet meeting, Israeli finance minister Yuval Steinitz said the government was now waging war on "a second front - of cyber attacks against Israel."

Mr Steinitz said in the past four days, Israel had "deflected 44 million cyber attacks on government websites. All the attacks were thwarted except for one, which targeted a specific website that was down for six or seven minutes."

"The ministry's computer division will continue to block the millions of cyber attacks," Mr Steinitz said.

"We are enjoying the fruits of our investment in recent years in developing computerised defence systems."



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-19/m ... es/4379222

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2012 06:00 
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Norman,

You've not seen the interviews given by the Emir of Qatar on Al Jazeera I take it?


Well, with fifty million enemies surrounding Israel, it's a good chance somebody will say something,

for domestic consumption.

I don't see Saudi Arabia and other Middle East countries calling for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council.

( Any Arab countries mobilizing their military forces? :P )

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2012 16:06 
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Norman,

Quote:
Israel's bombardment of Gaza has stirred anger across the Middle East among populations who hope that Arab uprisings can translate into a tougher stance against Israel.

Television footage of Israeli airstrikes and pictures of civilian casualties, including four children killed on Sunday, have fuelled rage in the region.

In six days of hostilities, 100 Palestinians have died in Gaza, while three Israelis have been killed by rocket fire from the blockaded coastal territory.

The violence echoes Israel's invasion of Gaza four years ago. But since then, revolutions in North Africa have brought Islamist allies of Gaza's Hamas rulers to power, changing the political map and raising expectations of a more robust Arab response.




http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/ ... SX20121119

Quote:
More than 500 Egyptian activists crossed into the Gaza Strip on Sunday to show solidarity with Palestinians, something unthinkable under former president Hosni Mubarak, who kept Egypt's border with Gaza closed during the bloodiest days of the 2008-2009 Israeli air raids and land invasion.




Quote:
A prominent Saudi cleric said Cairo should send arms to Gaza's Hamas rulers


Quote:
The head of the Arab League and a group of Arab foreign ministers will visit Gaza on Tuesday in the latest official display of solidarity with the 1.7 million Palestinians there.

"The barbaric bombardment we saw yesterday of Gaza children is a crime against humanity," Lebanese Foreign Minister Adnan Mansour, who will join the ministerial trip, told Reuters.

"The world must not stand silent. This is a terrorist act by all standards," he said.

Palestinians deserved a "courageous and honorable stand" from Arab governments, Mansour said.




Quote:
Jordan and Egypt are the only Arab countries to have signed peace treaties with Israel. Egypt recalled its ambassador from Tel Aviv last week while Jordan, which has not pulled its envoy out, called for an end to "the targeting of civilians".

"This matter will only lead to more tensions in the area and will lead to an explosion of the situation," Foreign Minister Nasser Joudeh said.

In Turkey, a photograph showing the burnt body of a three-year-old girl was widely shared on Twitter under the caption "Ranan Yousef Arafat. 3 years. Killed today by IsraHell."

Ties between Israel and Turkey, once Israel's only Muslim ally, crumbled after Israeli marines stormed an aid ship in 2010 to enforce a naval blockade of the Gaza Strip. Nine Turks were killed in clashes with activists on board.

Qatar, whose leader broke the international isolation of Hamas with a visit to Gaza last month, said the U.N. Security Council should take "a clear position to restore rights to people (in Gaza)".



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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2012 18:13 
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I see.

So only Hamas in Gaza is attacking Israel?

Sounds like all the other Arabs know they need Israel. :P

See "my thread" ( shortly... )

http://forum.catholic.org/viewtopic.php?f=228&t=63797

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 15:13 
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Gaza: Palestinians executed for 'collaborating' with Israel

Masked gunmen publicly shot dead six suspected collaborators with Israel in Gaza City on Tuesday.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... srael.html

Quote:
A mob was seen surrounding five of the bloodied bodies shortly after the killing, while a sixth corpse tied to a motorcycle was dragged through the streets as people screamed: “Spy! Spy!” Gunmen on motorcycles rode along as the body was pulled past a house of mourning for victims of an Israeli air strike.

The Hamas military wing, Izzedine al-Qassam, said it was responsible in a handwritten note attached to a electricity pole. Hamas said the six were killed because they gave Israel information about fighters and rocket launching sites. Israel relies on informers to identify targets in Gaza.

Witnesses said four masked men pushed the victims out of a van in Gaza City’s Sheik Radwan neighbourhood, ordered them to lie face down in the street and then shot them.


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 15:22 
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Witnesses said four masked men pushed the victims out of a van in Gaza City’s Sheik Radwan neighbourhood, ordered them to lie face down in the street and then shot them.


I guess that's due process under Sharia law? :P

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 15:27 
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Norman,

Not so.

Quote:
... due process of Islamic Law must be followed, including strict rules of evidence and the absence of any doubt or extenuating circumstances (shubuhaat) surrounding the crime.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiqh_Counc ... th_America

We neeed to be careful not to follow the gutter press in confusing Moslems with terrorists. (The relation between the two is one of intersection, not inclusion - much less one of identity.)

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 15:47 
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Don't get me wrong, this whole thing is a horror and I have no doubt that innocent civilians on the Palestinian side have died (as have they died on the Israeli side), but it's also true that it's been proven that Hamas paraded the picture of a dead girl who was actually killed in the uprising in Syria.

Israel has dropped leaflets telling civilians where to go to be safe. Hamas wants dead civilians as much as dead Israel soldiers, perhaps even more so.

A person on Facebook has posted a couple of pleas for peace but each one has placed the blame on Israel. One describing Goliath attacking David, never mind that David is using long range missiles and has called for the total destruction of Goliath. I didn't respond, she is kind and upset and has been battling cancer for four years, I'm not going to get in a shouting match with her but I find it frustrating that she wasn't posting when Israel was being hit by rocket fire long before anyone paid much attention. She didn't offer any prayers for peace then.

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 16:08 
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Val,

Terrorists in Gaza have been lobbing projectiles in the general direction of Israeli population centres all year. The IDF responded with a drone attack in which Ahmed al-Jabari, the commander of the military wing of Hamas, was killed. The terrorists have intensified the rocket attacks and are now using new long-range equipment. Tel Aviv and even Jerusalem itself are now under threat.

The state of Israel has the right to defend itself.

(Very impressed with the Iron Dome system.)

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012 14:39 
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James,

Quote:
Val,

Terrorists in Gaza have been lobbing projectiles in the general direction of Israeli population centres all year. The IDF responded with a drone attack in which Ahmed al-Jabari, the commander of the military wing of Hamas, was killed. The terrorists have intensified the rocket attacks and are now using new long-range equipment. Tel Aviv and even Jerusalem itself are now under threat.

The state of Israel has the right to defend itself.

(Very impressed with the Iron Dome system.)


That was the point I wanted to make to her and to my brother who claimed that the media covered the attacks on Israel, I pointed out they did so only after Israel said they would defend themselves.

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012 16:06 
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Joined: 16 Jul 2002 05:16
Posts: 15824
Location: Southern California, Catholic
Hamas reminds me of the little boy who insisted that the fight started when "He hit me back" :P

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- Joe Kelley

Death is only a shadow across the path to Heaven.


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