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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2012 22:38 
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LASaxman wrote:
If he really wanted to cause more trouble for Egptian Christians he probably chose the right way to do it. :(

Yep. That is why I wonder what the real story is behind all this, and I wonder why the state-controlled TV in Egypt ran it for several days in the run up to the violence.
It is almost like the Egyptian government wanted to stir the pot. I don't think we will ever know the truth.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2012 16:07 
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Arwen wrote:
LASaxman wrote:
If he really wanted to cause more trouble for Egptian Christians he probably chose the right way to do it. :(

Yep. That is why I wonder what the real story is behind all this, and I wonder why the state-controlled TV in Egypt ran it for several days in the run up to the violence.
It is almost like the Egyptian government wanted to stir the pot. I don't think we will ever know the truth.


The truth is coming out -slowly but surely regardless the leftists' gnashing of teeth and attempts to deflect from the truth...

State Dept. Meltdown at Benghazi Hearing

-small excerpt:

Quote:
The Obama administration’s Benghazi response continued to unravel at the House Oversight Committee hearing today, as State Department officials struggled unsuccessfully to get their stories straight.

Ambassador Patrick Kennedy defended UN Ambassador Susan Rice’s claim on September 16 that the attack was part of a spontaneous protest that erupted over an anti-Islam video, saying that anyone at the State Department would have said the same thing as Rice based on the intelligence available at the time. “If any administration official, including any career official, were on television on Sunday, September 16, they would have said what Ambassador Rice said. The information she had at that point from the intelligence community is the same that I had at that point,” said Kennedy.

But, as Republicans on the Oversight Committee pointed out, that appears to contradict Kennedy’s comments from a September 12 unclassified briefing, when he reportedly called it a terrorist attack.

Another State Department official, Charlene Lamb, wrote in her prepared testimony (but did not read aloud) that she was able to monitor the attack “in almost real-time” once a Diplomatic Security agent activated the imminent danger notification system. Yet she didn’t explain why the State Department and other administration officials initially said spontaneous protests were responsible for the attack, if there had been officials monitoring it in real-time.


I have even heard a rumor that it was terrorists behind producing and circulating a version of the "stupid film" for the very purpose of orchestrating discord, outrage, and disorder -community organizing 101 --something the Obama administration trained our enemies in doing well as part of the Arab Spring effort...

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2012 16:58 
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Daniel,

Quote:
...community organizing 101 --something the Obama administration trained our enemies in doing well as part of the Arab Spring effort.


Naturellement! And the Moslem-communist elitist commando squads were trained personally by a dark lady named Michelle. The Beetles prophetically wrote of these events in their song, Michelle, Ma Belle. Community organising 101 is now a hot subject at the University of Qom (it's part of the Faculty of Islamic Theology). There are plans to expand the course.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2012 23:00 
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I have even heard a rumor that it was terrorists behind producing and circulating a version of the "stupid film" for the very purpose of orchestrating discord, outrage, and disorder -community organizing 101 --something the Obama administration trained our enemies in doing well as part of the Arab Spring effort...

Of course you've read that Mr. Romney wants the US to give arms and aid to the rebels in Syria.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012 18:08 
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Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
Daniel,

Quote:
...community organizing 101 --something the Obama administration trained our enemies in doing well as part of the Arab Spring effort.


Naturellement! And the Moslem-communist elitist commando squads were trained personally by a dark lady named Michelle. The Beetles prophetically wrote of these events in their song, Michelle, Ma Belle. Community organising 101 is now a hot subject at the University of Qom (it's part of the Faculty of Islamic Theology). There are plans to expand the course.


This stuff was barely reported by the US media who still carries water for the left and their leader Obama. However, with wikileaks and foreign reporters efforts in addition to the world seeing the actual results thus far of this 'arab spring' the much touted leftist homegrown democracy in the streets propaganda has lost its luster. It looks like one of your favorites "open society" was as well involved -Ma Belle?

State Department, NED, Soros & CIA links to "regime change" dissidents in Belarus, MidEast

-index excerpt:
Quote:
(1) State Department, NED, Soros & CIA orchestrate Election riots in Belarus - Israel Shamir
(2) Cable VILNIUS 000732 - US Embassy on courier bringing USAid to NGOs
(3) Soros conference on Belarus organized by Open Estonia Foundation
(4) Belarus declares Soros Foundation not eligible for tax concessions, fines it $3 million
(5) Soros says his Foundations "will not play by Mr. Lukashenko's rules"
(6) Guardian's misleading headlines attempt to sway Belarus election against Lukashenko - Shamir
(7) Iran's Fear Of A George Soros-Funded "Velvet Revolution"
(8) Soros funding Iran opposition. Iran calls him "Jewish tycoon and the mastermind of ultra-modern colonialism"
(9) State Dep't organizes Youth Movements for further Color Revolutions, with Google & Facebook
(10) State Dep't sponsors Alliance of Youth Movements for REGIME CHANGE
(11) The Wikileaks-Egypt-White House-US Government Connection
(12) Egypt protests: secret US document discloses support for protesters
(13) Hillary confirms that State Dep't funded Egyptian labor unions
(14) NYT traces Arab revolutions to Gene Sharp, Peter Ackerman's ICNC & Stephen Zunes
(15) Middle East uprisings take cue from Gene Sharp's guide to non-violent revolution
(16) Egypt's April 6 Youth Movement modelled on Optor (links to Gene Sharp & NED) - Eric Walberg
(17) Video game teaches how to conduct a large-scale peaceful protest
(18) A page from a Leaflet distributed to Egyptian protestors
(19) Songs and chants to rally the demonstrators
(20) Russian military: "Airstrikes in Libya did not take place"
(21) Al Jazeera reports about Libyan jets firing on protesters are "unverified and questionable"
(22) Castro & Chavez say US is fomenting unrest in Libya
(23) "Progressives" paving the way for a US takeover of Libya?
(24) Peter Singer calls for military intervention in Libya
(25) I.S.O. Trots arrested for plotting Egypt style protest in Zimbabwe
(26) International Criminal Court launches probe of Gadhafi
(27) China on guard against protests inspired by uprisings in North Africa & MidEast

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012 18:18 
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LASaxman wrote:
Quote:
I have even heard a rumor that it was terrorists behind producing and circulating a version of the "stupid film" for the very purpose of orchestrating discord, outrage, and disorder -community organizing 101 --something the Obama administration trained our enemies in doing well as part of the Arab Spring effort...

Of course you've read that Mr. Romney wants the US to give arms and aid to the rebels in Syria.


I would agree with you that there is a cult of personality like love of all things Obama evidenced from the left; HOWEVER, I would suggest that this useful idiot delusion with a person does not define the right. In fact, the main if not only reason I vote for Romney is to get rid of Obama -period.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012 18:23 
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Daniel,

dlm wrote:
Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
Daniel,

Quote:
...community organizing 101 --something the Obama administration trained our enemies in doing well as part of the Arab Spring effort.


Naturellement! And the Moslem-communist elitist commando squads were trained personally by a dark lady named Michelle. The Beetles prophetically wrote of these events in their song, Michelle, Ma Belle. Community organising 101 is now a hot subject at the University of Qom (it's part of the Faculty of Islamic Theology). There are plans to expand the course.


This stuff was barely reported by the US media...


I should hope not! It's looney, nut-job, conspiracy stuff. (My reply to you was obviously a wild flight of fancy.)

As for the "Open Society", yes, I'm very much in favour of it. (I was unaware John Lennon had ever used the term. I only know of it from Sir Karl Popper's The Open Society and It's Enemies. I think you might find the work rather to your liking.)

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2012 21:01 
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The man behind the anti-Islam video blamed for sparking widespread protests in the Muslim world has been jailed for one year for breaching the terms of his probation for a previous offence.

Mark Basseley Youssef will serve the sentence in federal prison after he admitted four allegations of using false identities, violating the terms of his probation for a bank fraud conviction in 2010.

The 55-year-old was identified as the main man behind the film, Innocence of Muslims...



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-08/a ... us/4360388

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2012 22:11 
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I heard his attorney on the radio saying that the real motive of the government had nothing to do with his parole, they were just using that as a pretext to supress his First Amendment right of free speech.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2012 22:19 
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Well, once he got caught breaking the terms of his parole so publicly, it was impossible for the government to ignore it.
I have a feeling somebody ELSE manipulated him, and I would like to know who that was, but we probably never will.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012 02:02 
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Quote:
supress his First Amendment right of free speech.

Your first amendment means nothing to the rioters
Please dont cause more mayhem by not respecting other religions

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012 10:40 
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fsimon wrote:
Quote:
supress his First Amendment right of free speech.

Your first amendment means nothing to the rioters
Please dont cause more mayhem by not respecting other religions

Simon,

I promise I won't cause more mayhem! :hold:

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012 11:16 
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Simon,

Quote:
Your first amendment means nothing to the rioters
Please dont cause more mayhem by not respecting other religions



It is still our first amendment, please understand that. I also agree that we should respect all religions.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012 18:41 
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It is still our first amendment, please understand that


I understand that,but dont you feel that something must be done to prevent a repeat.

There are too many people who take to large scale violence on the smallest pretext.

There is ignorance of the great goodness of the USA.There are people out there who would like to malign you and paint you as haters of Islam.

A small film resulted in so much death



I dont know if what happened in Libya was preplanned


It is very painful for me to see such madness.One has to be careful with Muslims,Hindus because it takes only a small spark to cause a fire

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012 21:14 
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fsimon wrote:
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It is still our first amendment, please understand that


I understand that, but dont you feel that something must be done to prevent a repeat.


What would you suggest?

I only ask this so possibly one can think this through regarding and considering necessarily potential inevitable conclusions...

Thankfully, here in the US one can file a lawsuit and have their day in court EVEN if they are wrong.

In Islam we see death sentences without due process.

There is MUCH wrong with Islam.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012 21:28 
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fsimon wrote:
Quote:
It is still our first amendment, please understand that


I understand that,but dont you feel that something must be done to prevent a repeat.


The only thing that can prevent a repeat is for Muslims to stop rioting whenever they feel offended and to stop murdering people who believe differently than they do. Think of the Alexandria church bombing or the Kosheh massacre in Egypt; what was the cause? It wasn't somebody exercising their right to free speech. I believe that the responsibility for Muslim actions lies with Muslims.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012 22:16 
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I believe that the responsibility for Muslim actions lies with Muslims.

I can speak only for Indian muslims who seem to be of the milder variety

I have muslim friends enjoy muslim biryanis ,tandoori chicken and kababs at muslim places.

Without making fun of their religion.

I also believe that Americans are very good people.They have their software research centres here .But importantly they have help India defend its Western shoreline from terrorist attacks from Pakistan

They just need to control such provocative films.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012 05:54 
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fsimon wrote:
It is still our first amendment, please understand that

I understand that,but dont you feel that something must be done to prevent a repeat.


No I do not.

Quote:
There are too many people who take to large scale violence on the smallest pretext
.

That is their problem

Quote:
There is ignorance of the great goodness of the USA.There are people out there who would like to malign you and paint you as haters of Islam.


I lived for five years in a Moslem Country, there are many many Moslems who are very good people. Why is Islam seamingly governed by the fringe elements? That is IMO the problem

Quote:
A small film resulted in so much death


No, the film killed no one, the rioters did.



Quote:
I dont know if what happened in Libya was preplanned


Of course it was, that is already determined, the film was an excuse.


Quote:
It is very painful for me to see such madness.One has to be careful with Muslims,Hindus because it takes only a small spark to cause a fire


Sometimes fire burns those who set it.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012 07:20 
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Quote:
That is their problem


I see things differently,one should not instigate moslems, hindus by mocking their religion.If you do then dont blame them for violence against your people in their countries
When in rome do as romans do.
I do have sympathy for your people killed and injured. But I do feel also from your reply is somewhat arrogant .Time will tell how far your freedom to ridicule other religions can go.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012 08:03 
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Quote:
Why is Islam seamingly governed by the fringe elements?

In India there was a problem at the US Embassy at Chennai and in the Kashmir valley.The rest of the Muslim population did not riot.You do have a point.

Quote:
Sometimes fire burns those who set it.
It cuts both ways- since you are an ex serviceman what is the understanding of your troops about Islam?

In Afghanistan most could not speak the local language and quite a few mocked the locals

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012 08:40 
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fsimon wrote:

I see things differently,one should not instigate moslems, hindus by mocking their religion.If you do then dont blame them for violence against your people in their countries

Muslims mock Christianity frequently, disparage Christianity, burn churches, damage Bibles, murder Christians, etc, YET we do not riot and take out our vengeance on the nearest Muslim we can lay hands on. According to your line of reasoning, we would be justified to do so. Here is a photo of a Bible with blood on it; it belonged to a Nigerian who was killed in a church by Boko Haram. When Muslims hear of a Koran possibly maybe somewhere being burnt they rampage; here we have proof of a damaged Bible and dead co-religionists, but I have not gone out looking for a Nigerian Muslim to exact revenge on.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012 10:22 
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According to your line of reasoning, we would be justified to do so

No Christians usually dont react by taking revenge.When churches were being attacked in Karnataka south West India we in Goa just 300 kms north did not burn their idols during their Ganesh festival
Christianity does not take revenge(usually) .Christianity sets the standards.

My feeling is that things like cartoons mocking Mohammed should be restricted.Because Muslims cant digest them.It is a different world than the west which has scientific rational thinking .These fellows cannot take public criticism/mockery of their faith .

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012 11:02 
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Simon,

My personal feeling that one should not mock another religion and my feeling that our government should not suppress freedom of speech is not incongruent. If my government restricts speech that attacks one religion then it can limit speech that supports another. Once you say that the government can limit the speech of a private citizen then you open the door to limiting speech that should be spoken.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012 14:02 
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Simon,

Freedom of speech is 99% percent protected, only a very few areas are restricted such as yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. Along with the freedom of speech is freedom of expression such as burning the American Flag. The Supreme Court has decided that is free speech, and I support that. I also suggest that doing it in my presence might be harmful to your health but that is another topic.

We cannot restrict someone's right to speak freely because it annoys someone, or even because it mocks someone's religion; that is just not the way the US Operates.

I fully agree that things like this film do no good and common sense should dictate that they not be made, but the law can never restrict it.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012 14:40 
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BobC wrote:
Simon,

Freedom of speech is 99% percent protected, only a very few areas are restricted such as yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. Along with the freedom of speech is freedom of expression such as burning the American Flag. The Supreme Court has decided that is free speech, and I support that. I also suggest that doing it in my presence might be harmful to your health but that is another topic.

We cannot restrict someone's right to speak freely because it annoys someone, or even because it mocks someone's religion; that is just not the way the US Operates.

I fully agree that things like this film do no good and common sense should dictate that they not be made, but the law can never restrict it.

Maybe all the employers could agree to fire anyone who speaks badly of another religion (on or off the job)? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2012 16:26 
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Daniel,

Quote:
What would you suggest?




Good manners.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2012 02:51 
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Quote:
the law can never restrict it.

in my backward country india there are laws which do not allow to 'hurt the religous sentiments of others"
which is necessary when dealing with backward people who act in backward ways because of their backward beliefs :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2012 04:53 
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Simon,

NO one here has said your country is backwards, what has been explained is American Law.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2012 07:04 
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NO one here has said your country is backwards, what has been explained is American Law
.
I not a chauvinist.Here is a case where an editor has been arrested.The mob disperses only after he is arrested
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 07256.html

Quote:
The editor and publisher of a major Indian newspaper have been arrested for "hurting the religious feelings" of Muslims after they reprinted an article from
The Independent. Ravindra Kumar and Anand Sinha, the editor and publisher of the Kolkata-based English daily The Statesman, appeared in court yesterday charged under section 295A of the Indian Penal Code which forbids "deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage religious feelings".

The partition of India resulted in so many death of Hindus and muslims.Resents simmer after more than 60 years.There have been attacked on christians .The offenders have escaped justice.It just the christians in india are forgiving and have not taken to violence in retaliation.In 1984 operation blue star flushed out sikh terrorists from the golden temple at amritsar.One of the generals responsible recently escaped an attempt on his life.In many states foreign christian missionaries are banned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Chris ... e_in_India

Beating up an old American missionary is not the work of an advanced people is it?It is a reflection on the culture of the people who did it
http://www.compassdirect.org/english/co ... _1824.html

http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2010_5/168245.htm

Quote:
There are active "anticonversion" laws in five of the 28 states: Gujarat, Orissa, Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, and Himachal Pradesh. Although Arunachal Pradesh enacted its law in 1978, the government has yet to frame the rules needed for enforcement. Gujarat has a Freedom of Religion Act (2003) and Rules (2008) that proscribed religious conversions by means of allurement, force, or fraud. At the end of the reporting period, no court date had been set for the challenge by civic groups of the constitutional validity of the Gujarat legislation. There were reports of arrests but no convictions under these laws during the reporting period.


I hope that things are now clearer as to why I called India backward.Would this happen in more enlightened societies?

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2012 07:19 
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The relevance of my posting the above articles in this thread is to show that there are many countries that have backward societies.Its just the type of world we live in.Can this be ignored or wished away?
Thanks to the internet we are connected for better or for worse

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2012 09:22 
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fsimon wrote:
The relevance of my posting the above articles in this thread is to show that there are many countries that have backward societies.Its just the type of world we live in.Can this be ignored or wished away?
Thanks to the internet we are connected for better or for worse



I am well aware of that, it still does not change the US Constitution.

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 Post subject: Re: That Stupid Film
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2012 11:03 
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I think that there is considerable evidence that the attack on the embassy was in retaliation for the killing of Ben Laden. . It looks to me that the chief ones blaming the film are those who wish to distract attention from the President making that a campaign issue.

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