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Debera Bennett

This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.


III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.

Scripture:

The term "purgatory" is not in the Bible, but instead look to these Biblical references:

"If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire" (1 Cor 3:15)

And this....

On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his men went to gather up the bodies of the slain and bury them with their kinsmen in their ancestral tombs. But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain. They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden. Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.

(2 Maccabees 39-46)

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Mary-Love

Jesus, I trust in You.

JMJ

Debera,

welcome to COL Forum! Here's the link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church Mary quoted http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P2N.HTM#6
and the footnotes to the text for further research:



For the scriptural basis of Purgatory and the position of the early Church and the Fathers see:
http://scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html
http://scripturecatholic.com/purgatory_qa.html
http://www.catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp

For more resources:

http://www.scborromeo.org/papers/purgator.pdf

http://www.scborromeo.org/truth/truth.pdf

see also our FAQ thread: viewtopic.php?f=223&t=21232

I hope this helps. Do take the time to check these resources. They are very succinct but very exhaustive.

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FabrizioParty like it's 1773!

The safest place for me to be is in the center of God's will, and if that is in the line of fire, that's where I'll be-Fr. T. Vakoc

In addition to what Mary-Love and Fabrizio posted I would like to add this reference to our present Holy Father's encyclical Spe Salve.

Scroll down to paragraphs 44-47, especially 46 and the first part of 47:

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Kent Wendler

Thanks Kent - that is an awesome quote! So good in fact that I am printing it out for my RCIA class - the topic I am presenting this week is purgatory!

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Mary-Love

Jesus, I trust in You.

I am a newbie to being a catholic and my RCIA was all about who Jesus is and so on. I already know Jesus, you could say we are like brothers, so I didn't really learn about the Church
... Maybe I'm still to Protestant in my mind because I'm still not really "buying" it. It just doesn't make sense. Where did this beliefe come from???

Does Macabees take place before or after the Gospel?

And thank you for welcoming me

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Debera Bennett

JMJ

Debera,

if you take the time to check the various links that were posted, plus the replies so far, you will get a good picture of the biblical origins and doctrinal development of the doctrine of Purgatory. It's nothing really complicated, but one has to be willing to read for more than 20 seconds.


Purgatory is based on more than just than Maccabees, however the 2 books of the Maccabes are in the OLD Testament whereas the Gospels are of course part of the NEW Testament. The facts narrated in the two books took place between 175 and 134 BEFORE Christ. The Gospels are of course about Christ.

The Book of the Maccabees are part of the "historical books" of the Bible and are in fact the last of such group, followed by the "widom books" which begin with Job. The Old Testament is conventionally divided into 4 main groups: the Pentateuch, the Historical Books, the Wisdom Books and the Prophetic Books. The Gospels are the first four books of the NEW Testament, followed by the Acts of the Apostles, the Pauline Letters, the Apostolic Letters and Revelation.

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FabrizioParty like it's 1773!

The safest place for me to be is in the center of God's will, and if that is in the line of fire, that's where I'll be-Fr. T. Vakoc

Debera,

I don't know where you're from, so please bear with me if the cultural allusions don't track well. Here's how I explain Purgatory to my Sunday School class:

Imagine that it's Thanksgiving Day (or some other special family-dinner day) Before the meal, everyone is outside playing football. Some people don't do much and don't get very dirty while others get covered with mud and grass stain.

At some point, it's time to go back inside, but mom and grandma have the nicest white linen tablecloth down and the good dishes, and it's just not right for dirty, messy people to sit down at that table.

So what happens? Everyone heads to the bathroom as necessary to clean up before going to that table. Some just need to wash their face and hands, while others need a full shower and change of clothes.

This is like Purgatory. Some people roll around in the sin of this world while others don't let it touch them very much. Before they can go into full Heaven, though, everyone needs to get cleaned up. However you describe this process, it has to happen, because we can't take the mess of worldliness with us when we go before the Beatific Vision of God in all His glory. It's just not right.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

Rose - love that analogy!

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Mary-Love

Jesus, I trust in You.

Jmj, I did read it for "more then 20seconds" but thanks for the comment

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Debera Bennett

Rose, that is a good analogy and I am from New England. So no cultural issues lol. But I was taught that when you are saved and ask for forgiveness youre all set. And because you are saved, you are clean... I don't know maybe it just needs sometime to settle in for me to understand it enough to accept it as true. I also don't have a Catholic bible, so you might feel what I have is incomplete, but it's what I have always had so I have some "catching up to do" if you want to say.

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Debera Bennett

Thank you!


Elizabeth takes it one better. She tells her kids that our prayers are like soap that help those in Purgatory get clean faster. I used that yesterday with my class, in fact, to explain why we have Masses said for the poor souls.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

I've been told the same thing you were, that once we're saved, we're washed in the Blood and we don't need anything else. But that doesn't stand to reason. Unless we die within seconds of being saved, we're going to sin again. We're going to need to confess our sins and somehow, the stain of all that sin needs to be dealt with. So the concept of "once saved, always saved," really doesn't work unless you want to see it as a license to commit any sin in the book. (And we all know people who've used it that way, too) That can't be right.

The Catholic interpretation is more that Our Lord's death made it possible for our sins to be forgiven and that we can go back, as necessary, to confess our sins. The cross doesn't force us to be saved; it gives us the option and we need to make that choice every day.

I have another analogy. I've used cotton diapers quite often for my seven kids. Occasionally I've had a few that I've soaked and bleached and worked at, but they are stained for the duration. They're clean, but they're discolored. Our souls can be like that after certain sins, or after a lot of any sin. Over time if we really turn away from sin, this life might slowly wash the stain away, but we will likely still reach the end of our lives with a somewhat discolored soul.

Purgatory is God's gift to us so that we can go to Heaven fresh and clean.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

Thank you Rose W, you have made some very good points and I will pray and reflect on all of this.

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Debera Bennett

While the links provided are by their nature absolutley accurate, I can understand why you might have some difficulty with the language of the church. When I explain these truths, I tend to use somewhat more colloquial language.

Some excellent analogies have already been given. Some people learn well from analogies, others learn well from abstractions. I'll give you something of a slightly abstract explanation.

Let's start with how Catholics and Protestants agree.

We all believe that Christ saves us. That his work on the cross is itself sufficient to save us, that his sacrifice pays the debt of sin and satisfies the need for justice, that we are, in our baptism we are forgiven of sins and become part of the Body of Christ and thus participate in the Divine Sonship of Christ and we are eligible to spend eternity with God.

We're all on board (for the most part) there.

We also agree that "no unclean thing can enter Heaven", as Revelations 21 tells us. Unclean means anything less than totally 100% perfected.

When we die, despite our best efforts and cooperation with Grace, nearly none of us are 100% perfect. Even if we are in a state of grace, our will is not perfectly in line with God's; we still have some disordered appetites (perhaps we like chocolate a bit too much, perhaps we aren't willing to TOTALLY give up our lives for God, perhaps we aren't willing to be tortured for Christ, there are many extreme examples) or attachments which remain. We have not been totally perfected. So in order to enter Heaven, SOMEHOW God must make us clean; must SOMEHOW make us truly and totally perfect. Because I think we all agree that nobody who's in Heaven is too attached to chocolate; we have something far greater in Heaven.

So how do we get from being attached to things of this world to being 100% perfected and perfectly clean?

Catholics call that process, or that place, or whatever it is, Purgatory. Why do we believe it is painful? Because nearly every process of growth in holiness, every process of becoming a better person, is painful to that part of ourselves that is all too attached to things of this world. Giving money to the poor is not fun; it is a sacrifice. Saying rosaries on our knees is not an enjoyable experience (especially for those of us with bad knees, like me). Giving up chocolate for Lent is certainly less fun than having chocolate. These are simple examples that illustrate a great truth; we grow in holiness through sacrifice, because sacrifice is the heart of love. When we love we are willing to sacrifice for the beloved.

I believed as a Protestant for a few years, and when I started to see the truth of the Catholic faith, Purgatory was the easiest of the doctrines to which Protestants often object for me to accept. It naturally follows that we must be perfected, and there's no reason to believe that it will be easier after our physical lives than during it.

I will pray you come to understand this doctrine of the Church. And you are wise and brave to seek answers where you are having difficulty.

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Jeff Stevens

Excellent point. I've read or heard that one of the reasons it's actually more painful is that the soul is so close to Our Lord and has a much better understanding of how sin has separated it from Him, that it's worse.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

Wouldn't it be better, and less painful, because the soul knows (or maybe it doesn't) that it definitely is not going to Hell?

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Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla

Grace,

I'm being purely speculative here:

I think it's a little like a three year old on Christmas eve, who feels as though he's going to explode if he can't have some presents RIGHT NOW.

I also think that because of Original Sin we have no real idea what we give up by sinning. I suspect we just can't imagine it. After our personal judgement and when we're being cleansed, we will understand what each and every little thing we do has done to us.

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Rose West
"May God help us not to spoil His work" (Bl. Mother Theresa)

This belief came from Christ and His Apostles who handed it down to the first Christians who then handed down to the next Christians, and so on till it has reached us.
Here is what the Early Christians had written about this subject and the Biblical verses related to it:

“It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.” 2Mac 12:46

” In the books of the Maccabees we read of sacrifice offered for the dead. Howbeit even if it were no where at all read in the Old Scriptures, not small is the authority, which in this usage is clear, of the whole Church, namely, that in the prayers of the priest which are offered to the Lord God at His altar, the Commendation of the dead hath also its place.”
St. Augustine, On Care To Be Had For The Dead, Chapter 1:3 [A.D. 354-430]

And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:But he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.” Mt 12:32

“Hence we may gather that there are some sins that are remitted in this world, some in the world to come; for what is denied of one must be supposed to be admitted of others. And this may be believed in the case of trifling faults; such as much ill discourse, immoderate laughter, or the sin of carefulness in our worldly affairs, which indeed can hardly be managed without sin even by one who knows how he ought to avoid sin; or sins through ignorance (if they be lesser sins) which burden us even after death, if they have not been remitted to us while yet in this life. But it should be known that none will there obtain any purgation even of the least sin, but he who by good actions has merited the same in this life.”
St. Gregory of Nazianzus (fourth century )Catena Aurea

“Each one will be presented to the Judge exactly as he was when he departed this life. Yet there must be a cleansing fire before judgment because of some minor faults that may remain to the purged away. Does not Christ the Truth say that if anyone blasphemes the Holy Spirit he shall not be forgiven either in this world or in the world to come' From this statement we learn that some sins can be forgiven in this world and some in the world to come. For if forgiveness is refused for a particular sin we conclude logically that it is granted for others. This must apply as I said to slight transgressions.”
ST. Gregory the Great ,DIALOGUES 4:39

“And every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labour. …….
Every man's work shall be manifest. For the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire. And the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any mans work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” 1Co 3:8 & 13-15

"For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones (I Cor., 3); but also wood and hay and stubble,what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones? Neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood, and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works."
Origen of Alexandria (Homilies on Jeremias [c. AD 244])

" 'Neither chasten me in your hot displeasure' (Ps. 37:2)
.... so that you may cleanse me in this life and make me such that I may after that stand in no need of the cleansing fire for those who are to be saved yet so as by fire' (1 Cor. 3:15).

And because it is said he shall be saved that fire is thought lightly of. For all that though we should be saved by fire yet will that fire be more grievous than anything that man can suffer in this life whatsoever."
ST AUGUSTINE EXPOSISTIONS ON THE PSALMS 37:3

"Amen I say to thee thou shalt not go out from thence (from the prison) till thou repay the last farthing" Mt. 5 26

"That allegory of the Lord [Matt 5:25,26] which is extremely clear and simple in its meaning, and ought to be from the first understood in its plain and natural sense...Then, again, should you be disposed to apply the term 'adversary' to the devil, you are advised by the (Lord's) injunction, while you are in the way with him, 'to make even with him such a compact as may be deemed compatible with the requirements of your true faith. Now the compact you have made respecting him is to renounce him, and his pomp, and his angels. Such is your agreement in this matter. Now the friendly understanding you will have to carry out must arise from your observance of the compact: you must never think of getting back any of the things which you have abjured, and have restored to him, lest he should summon you as a fraudulent man, and a transgressor of your agreement, before God the Judge (for in this light do we read of him, in another passage, as 'the accuser of the brethren,' or saints, where reference is made to the actual practice of legal prosecution); and lest this Judge deliver you over to the angel who is to execute the sentence, and he commit you to the prison of hell, out of which there will be no dismissal until the smallest even of your delinquencies be paid off in the period before the resurrection. What can be a more fitting sense than this? What a truer interpretation?"
TERTULLIAN (A Treatise on the Soul 35 [c. AD 210])

“.It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory: it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord.

St. Cyprian Bishop of Carthage,Epistle 51 To Antonianus, Chapter 20 [A.D. 200-258]

“The Lord grant unto him to find mercy of the Lord in that day. And in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou very well knowest." 2Ti 1:18

Saint Paul is praying for his friend and asking God to be merciful to him "in that day".If all good Christians go to Heaven then why is St. Paul praying for his friend? The only reason is because his prayer will help him get to Heaven.

By the end of the first century Christian prayed for the dead and the proof is found in the catacombs of Rome.

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In Christ
Kim, M



"....abstinence and chastity, dispose man very much to the perfection of intellectual operation.” St Thomas Aquinas

Purgatory is a place where souls suffer for 1. Venial sins that were not confessed 2. Deadly sins that were confessed, but the temporal punishment was not fulfilled. (Imagine that you come from a confession where the priest told you to say the Litany of the Sacred Heart as your punishment, and you'll have a heart attack on your way home. You did not fulfill your punishment, and thus the fulfilling takes place in Purgatory.)

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Fred

Sancte Michael Archangele,
defende nos in prælio;
contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto præsidium.