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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 13:41 
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The police have registered a "case" against Zee News for airing this interview
http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/pe ... 20801.html

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He said that no one came to their help after they were thrown off the bus by the six accused. Even after the police arrived, it took the cops over two hours to take them to hospital.

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 14:20 
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 892425.cms

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NEW DELHI: Delhi Police on Friday night decided to register a case against Zee News after the channel aired an interview with the male friend of a Delhi girl who was gang-raped here three weeks ago, a crime to which he is the lone witness.

The case will be filed under Section 228 (A) of Indian Penal Code, which pertains to disclosure of identity of victim of certain offences, including rape, Delhi Police spokesperson Rajan Bhagat said.

In the interview, the person was severely critical of the police response and indifference of the public while he and the deceased girl lay on the road after being thrown out of the bus.


First they use this guy to crack the case, and then once their work is done ,do this...

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 15:55 
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Uma Subramanian, social worker

Our collective failure to speak out, to act against men who rape, has led once again to tragedy, this time in Delhi. Six men raped the victim, beat her and threw her away, thinking they could do so with impunity.

But I believe this case has grabbed national attention not only because of the brutality but also because the girl was "spotless" according to the moral brigade of India.

She was a student, wearing Indian dress, it was 9:30 pm (not so late), she went to a movie with a friend and she was returning home. She ticked all the boxes of the ideal Indian woman.

I wonder, would the sense of national tragedy be the same if the girl were a model or a dancer, or wearing a short dress when she was picked up by the bus joyriders, if her male companion were a boyfriend, or if they were returning from a nightclub? Would the brutality have been any less?

...But for the first time, there is conversation about teaching boys to respect women, to control their urges. Bollywood, the media and our repressive society have exaggerated the social stigma attached to reporting an attack and this also needs to change.

We need collectively to work to change both the legal and cultural frameworks of this country simultaneously and justice needs to be delivered to victims in a timely manner. Each one of us is responsible for not speaking out.




On the other hand, it would seem there remains a very long way to go

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Atul Sangar of BBC Hindi assesses conservative Indian opinion

Amidst the public outcry over the brutal gang rape in Delhi, several voices have struck a discordant note.

A few, like Congress MP Abhijeet Mukherjee, who is the son of Indian President Pranab Mukherjee, called the protests by students in the heart of the national capital "fashionable" and termed the protesters "dented and painted" women chasing their two minutes of fame. He later withdrew his comments after widespread criticism.

Similarly, one of the male-dominated village councils in the north Indian state of Haryana said that authorities should not get carried away by emotions in the wake of public protests and demands of the death penalty for rapists.

Recommendations from conservative sections of society to combat rape range from women wearing traditional clothes to their avoiding venturing out alone at night.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20904028

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 19:52 
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range from women wearing traditional clothes

I too favour traditional clothes not only for women but for men too- wearing a coat is ridiculous in the tropical climate of south india-indian clothes wear well this climate-and I do enjoy them
For me wearing a kurta pyjama is most appropriate is this hot climate

But then centuries of colonial rule have left their mark -a kurta is acceptable but not the the full kurta pyjama.Short pants are not acceptable in India
kurta -pant is ok- a shirt can be very hot

There is a dress code for women in churches in Mangalore and Mumbai.
The idea of freedom of dress may not work in india which in reality is one big village.However in big cities and colleges girls dont wear traditional clothes -jeans are the norm.I dont believe in forcing people what to wear -modesty is a choice and wonder how many girls who wear a burkha do it freely

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 20:32 
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would seem there remains a very long way to go

Haryana has a high rate of female infacticide,domestic violence,honour killings ,dowry deaths..

There is a very long way to go but the change must come from the inside -not forced externally
Sonia Gandhi,Sushma Swaraj ,Mayawati and Mamta Banerjee are all political leaders who sport traditional indian dress
Cities give girls a freedom from the village hierarchy-I dont really know how bad it it there

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 21:23 
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

Domestic violence apparently is in two ways...

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 21:50 
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https://www.facebook.com/notes/think-ta ... 5180842448

A list of suggestions..

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 22:12 
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http://www.saferindia.com/kiranbedi/index.jsp

Dr Kiram Bedi the first woman police officer of the IPS started this website to help those dissatisfied with the Indian polish

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013 07:54 
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http://www.indianexpress.com/news/us-of ... b/1054593/

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In the wake of the horrific gangrape of a 23-year-old girl in Delhi, the US has offered its assiatence to India in strengthening public and private organisations working to combat violence against women.

"Our goal is, whether it's in India or anywhere else, to help strengthen all of the public and private organisations

that are working to combat violence against women," State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland said yesterday.


I wonder how this statement translates into concrete action-the problem is huge in India

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013 09:08 
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I've change the subject of this thread to reflect the situation now more accurately.

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013 10:27 
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reflect the situation now more accurately

I don't know how many would share my view that this is gory incident is a reflection of Indian society at large -from its attitudes towards women,to the way it police work to its judicial system to its politicians and its criminals.
I also feel that merely borrowing terms from women 's rights groups in the West won't help.The problem is in the way society treats its people.Are rapes of low caste women the norm?What is this all male Kaup system of Panchayats(local village councils) in haryana?And what is the way out?The problem extends thought the sub continent -Nepal,Bangladesh,Pakistan,Afghanistan. India is better than its muslim neighbours
There are new rules in place at least in New Delhi.
It is amazing that girls from Andhra Pradesh in South India get trafficked to the North=- 3 days by train 2000 kms.
This is new territory for me.As ever the proud indian catholic but this is a problem that the catholic church alone cannot resolve.

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013 11:54 
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One is led to ask: Did the situation improve with independence? If not, why not?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

Raj= Governance
swa-raj Self Governance Or Home rule/Independence

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013 12:26 
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Haryana is close to New Delhi >i dont know how much it influences the labourers of New Delhi
Strange stories

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/harya ... ses-276696
Quote:
Chandigarh: Amid outrage over a string of rape cases in Haryana, Khap panchayats in the state have come out with a bizarre suggestion that the marriageable age limit should be abolished. They claim it will check such crimes. But the ruling Congress saw a "conspiracy" in the incidents.

"Boys and girls should be married by the time they turn 16 year old, so that they do not stray... this will decrease the incidents of rape," Sube Singh, a Khap representative, said.
Another Khap member said, "As soon as the children attain puberty, it is natural for them to have sexual desires but when these are not fulfilled, they stray... so there should not be any minimum age limit for marriage."

The comments from members of the influential caste councils came a day after a teenaged Dalit girl immolated self after being allegedly raped in Narwana area in Jind district,


http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... ana-s-jind

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CHANDIGARH: A khap panchayat in Haryana's Jind district has blamed consumption of chowmein behind the growing incidents of rapes in the state saying it leads to hormonal imbalance.

"To my understanding, consumption of fast food contributes to such incidents. Chowmein leads to hormonal imbalance evoking an urge to indulge in such acts," said Jitender Chhatar, a resident of Jind's Chhatar village and thua khap panchayat leader.


Most hindus dont eat only chicken no beef or pork .Some dont eat even fish

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013 12:37 
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Another rape and murder has occurred on the outskirts of New Delhi

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/body-of-girl ... 3-244.html

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The police also conducted the post mortem of the deceased, and the preliminary report showed injury marks around her neck and asphyxiation as the cause of the death of the girl.
The vagina and viscera samples of the victim have also been sent for supplementary forensic tests by the police. The case has been filed by the Noida police under sections 302 (murder), 376 (rape) and 201 (destruction of evidence).

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013 17:08 
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Do men who visit cheaply available prostitutes become rapists?Delhi's GB road is a hub for Nepali,Andhra girls
http://thetravelphotographer.blogspot.i ... f-god.html


http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/sex- ... 34838.html

One rapist was bihari

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013 17:40 
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It is hard to reconcile all of this with the moral outrage that occurred in India a few years ago when American actor Richard Gere kissed a Bollywood actress. I believe a warrant was issued for his arrest at that time.

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013 21:05 
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It is hard to reconcile all of this with the moral outrage that occurred in India a few years ago when American actor Richard Gere kissed a Bollywood actress

INDIAN HYPOCRISY

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013 21:36 
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The pharisees in the bible were outraged with Jesus . Remember they wanted to stone a woman caught in adultery.
Indian Pharisees also get outraged with low western standards.Therefore abortion is a big issue when indian woman savita died in Ireland .If the same thing were to happen back home it would be a different story.The Irish would take the matter seriously ,how would the Indian gov have reacted?I sometimes think the indians got independence peacefully because the colonialists were European-what would be the case if India were under another nation that was barbaric?

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013 21:53 
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I believe a warrant was issued for his arrest at that time


http://www.youfixittube.com/watch?v=-uO9qL_qMkU


The secretary of the panchayat -a hindu girl- was caught and slapped by the Sarpanch and his brother
Both fled the scene and applied thro their lawyer that they should not be arrested(sorry i dont respect indian law cant get the term).
They were linked to a minister who then got them released after the court found no proof or something
Sometimes a person is arrested to make an example of him-but the worse part is that criminals escape to save their good name

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013 22:05 
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I believe a warrant was issued for his arrest at that time.

Here is what to do if someone issues an arrest warrant

1) -disappear -go to the next state -preferably use public transport to cross the interstate border.Carry a lot of money to flash around.Indians respect money.

2)Next phone your lawyer for anticipatory bail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticipatory_bail

3)When the coast is clear return home and party

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2013 00:59 
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One is led to ask: Did the situation improve with independence? If not, why not?


http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013 ... -rape-law/


IPC 375/376

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Many readers will probably be aware that Thomas Macaulay was the architect of India’s education system. But among the many other important ways in which he shaped British and, indeed, contemporary India, a commission he headed formed the basis for the IPC. Much as with the introduction of English education, Lord Macaulay’s intention was to create a criminal law for India modeled on that of Great Britain.
It’s a cruel irony that while Britain, along with most western countries, have modernized their antiquated laws on rape, Indians are still shackled by it well into the 21st century.

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2013 07:58 
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http://www.peopleofbihar.com/page/racism-against-bihar
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In the past India was ruled by Congress and Gandhi Parivar. They were so strong that they were considered invincible. But in 1979, a common man from Bihar, Jai Prakash Narayan threw Congress out by defeating him in the elections. This gave a ray of hope to RSS that they can defeat Congress and come in Power. Thus, BJP was formed and it laid its foundation on the hard work done by a Leader from Bihar. By the defeat of Congress, Congress started neglecting Bihar because it feared the growth and intellect of People of Bihar. Has Bihar become more educated and strong, their Leaders would rise to make a democratic India and thus end the dictatorial rule of Congress. So, these people stopped providing funds to Bihar which automatically made our people poor and it broke the spinal cord of our great state Magadh(Bihar).
Moreover, People of Bihar accepted the greatest mistake by accepting Hindi as a National language. Despite accepting Hindi as a National language, we were treated like Untouchable Indians in Hindi speaking areas of Delhi and Western Uttar Pradesh. Moreover, Biharis have a different dialect of speaking Hindi as compared to Delhi people and this causes them to look them down upon them.

I sometimes wonder every guy from Marwari Rajasthani has got equal rights to come to Delhi and do business. Same is the case with a guy from Gujrat. Even people who came to Delhi as refugees are enjoying great success. But, if some one from Bihar comes to Delhi, they start telling us, "Go Back to Bihar." Am I living in Taliban or a country worst than Taliban??

Quote:
Racism in Delhi against Bihar: Everyone speaks me why Biharis are neglected in Delhi. This has a History. As you must have come across BJP, a self-styled Hindu party who proclaims to be Gods of Hindus along with RSS. But when "Hindus of Bihar and Uttar Pradesh" were beaten in Maharashtra, none of these so called Hindu parties raised their voices against Bal Thackeray and Raj Thackeray, both self-styled Nazi. For my own views and experience against these so called "False Hindu parties" Read: http://www.peopleofbihar.com/forum/topi ... s-of-bihar

In the past India was ruled by Congress and Gandhi Parivar. They were so strong that they were considered invincible. But in 1979, a common man from Bihar, Jai Prakash Narayan threw Congress out by defeating him in the elections. This gave a ray of hope to RSS that they can defeat Congress and come in Power. Thus, BJP was formed and it laid its foundation on the hard work done by a Leader from Bihar. By the defeat of Congress, Congress started neglecting Bihar because it feared the growth and intellect of People of Bihar. Has Bihar become more educated and strong, their Leaders would rise to make a democratic India and thus end the dictatorial rule of Congress. So, these people stopped providing funds to Bihar which automatically made our people poor and it broke the spinal cord of our great state Magadh(Bihar).
Moreover, People of Bihar accepted the greatest mistake by accepting Hindi as a National language. Despite accepting Hindi as a National language, we were treated like Untouchable Indians in Hindi speaking areas of Delhi and Western Uttar Pradesh. Moreover, Biharis have a different dialect of speaking Hindi as compared to Delhi people and this causes them to look them down upon them.

But, if some one from Bihar comes to Delhi, they start telling us, "Go Back to Bihar." Am I living in Taliban or a country worst than Taliban??

The Hypocrisy of Western Uttar Pradeshi Bhaiyyas: There is a common language and culture between Eastern Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. This is the reason they are always supportive of us. But, if you come to stay in Western Uttar Pradesh, they will treat you like anything. They will never Equality and will never make you feel better. These same politicians of Uttar Pradesh when needs help come to us and say, we both are brothers and sisters but when you go to work in their state, they will start lobbying and play dirty politics. Moreover, the UP politicians will try to impose their caste-system and dirty politics on you. I am just being truthful as I have lived in Western Uttar Pradesh Ghaziabad for almost 5 years. That is why I know the behavior of these people. So, my dear friends from Uttar Pradesh, "If you can't give us Respect, Don't expect Respect from us."

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2013 08:08 
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I am sorry that I fudged up the previous post.I wanted to highlight the fact that poor people from Uttar pradesh and Bihar would face discrimination in New Delhi.
While in New Delhi i stayed at Goa Sadan - a guest house for people from my state-this ensures some security rather than staying with unknown people

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2013 08:17 
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Simon,

I think you are overwhelming us with too many reports on the situation in India. With these, I think we already have a more than clearer picture of the dire need for reform there. If there is no further fruitful discussion on this topic, we may have to shut this thread down and move on.

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2013 15:52 
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Ian,

Quote:
I've change the subject of this thread to reflect the situation now more accurately.



Yes, we can all see why. It's a pity. This discussion could've taken the direction you suggested. A pity it didn't. Ho, hum...

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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2013 20:38 
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James,

I'll leave it open in case the discussion takes that direction.

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 Post subject: The Off-Topic Thread
PostPosted: 07 Jan 2013 00:58 
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I did enjoy researching rape in india.Local papers too now report rape on the front page.It was interesting for me to see how 1860s law can be the source of such evil. Land acquisition law too is very old and that has led to huge problems.I dont know how violence can add to the sick enjoyment of rapists.I read something about Ted Bundy and cannot understand his violent pleasures.I also can't understand how Delhi police cracked the case in under 24 hours but crime is still so rampant in North India.I have had my experience of being pulled out of my train seat in Bihar by young hooligans.I am glad the name of the victim is out.I have been googling for her picture...
Finally I am glad I dont have to travel or live in Delhi.

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 Post subject: Re: The Off-Topic Thread
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2013 08:40 
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If the rapists were illiterate -what was being done to change their situation
========================================================
There are no adult literacy programs,these guys had no future at a very young age.So condemned to be without the basic skills of reading and writing.I dont know what it is to be illiterate.Most would not understand more than a few words of english.One fellow drove a school bus -what was theschool doing to educate him?
Ok he will hang -but to what extent has Indian society failed the rapist.There was a case of a boy who knocked his friend unconscious against the school blackboard.He was expelled and joined another school.He retired as a chief engineer on a ship at 43.The second school was a Salesian(Don Bosco) school therefore catholic.
But such schools are very few > Indian society has to realize that it has an obligation to its poor-not the govt with it schemes but the corporates .is western society more kind towards its poor?

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 Post subject: Re: The Off-Topic Thread
PostPosted: 08 Jan 2013 08:44 
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Simon,

Can we give the various chaotic situations in India, especially the rape incident, a rest?

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