Catholic Online Forum

The first interactive Catholic Forum on the web
It is currently 25 May 2013 11:21

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 79 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2012 00:27 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Quote:
Huh. I always thought that fsimon was a man, but he's a woman. How could I have gotten that so wrong?


India is a land of contrasts .It has many IT research centres and lots of people who don't know what a computer is. women now hold around 30% of white collar jobs but there is a huge amount of domestic violence as well.Six men gang raped a 23 year old on Sunday something amazing in a civilised society.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 704734.cms?

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/41745 ... ccused.htm

So maybe the avatar depicts the landscape well

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Off-Topic Thread
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 01:42 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Quote:
it tears at the heart to come to terms why an innocent girl had fell victim to wicked heart
The violence is astounding- 6 men beating and raping a young girl for 40 minutes and then throwing her and her companion off a moving bus -naked.

Shifting her to Singapore is not a good sign -it could means that she is beyond the best of New Delhi hospitals
Delhi is the rape capital of india
http://www.ndtv.com/article/cheat-sheet ... nts-310332

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/tiha ... 39230.html
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/delh ... 39573.html

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Off-Topic Thread
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 01:47 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
http://businesstoday.intoday.in/story/a ... 91023.html

Quote:
All nine Metro stations in Central Delhi were opened for public on Tuesday evening after being shut for three days .


https://www.facebook.com/pages/Delhi-ra ... 3719967511

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Off-Topic Thread
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 02:09 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... conference

Quote:
Andhra Pradesh Congress chief Botsa Satyanarayana on Monday opened his mouth to put his foot right in, saying women are asking for trouble if they venture out at night. Worse, he described the assault on the physiotherapy student as a "minor incident" for which party president Sonia Gandhi had reached out to agitating people.

Just because India achieved freedom at midnight does not mean that women can venture out after dark. They should ensure that they do not board buses with few passengers," Botsa said to the shock of reporters at a press conference at Congress headquarters here.

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Off-Topic Thread
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 05:16 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Criminal profiles
============
Most people would want to cut the rapists into pieces.However there are economic conditions which help produce such criminals
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... crime.html
Quote:
In the last few years that the neighbours have known Singh, he had earned for himself the reputation of a muscleman whom people of the area chose to avoid. He would get into frequent drunken brawls, particularly with his immediate neighbours who avoided crossing his path in the evening.
He actually built his reputation a few years back when he eloped with a married woman from his neighbourhood.
"He returned after the woman, a mother of three, died because of some illness, but no one had the courage to say anything to his face. Everyone hated his actions but couldn't muster courage to say anything," Bhola Prasad, a neighbour, said.
Singh lived with his brother Mukesh and parents, who are known in the neighbourhood for their dysfunctional relationship. According to the neighbours, the couple get into heated arguments most evenings.

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 05:50 
Online
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2004 08:50
Posts: 6594
Location: Singapore
I've open this thread as a new topic, as there were several posts on the same subject in the Off-topic thread and there is potential to expand this discussion both in the spiritual and secular dimensions. For prayers for this poor girl, please go here: Pray request for Indian student victim

_________________
Ian DC
Blessed Ever Virgin Mary -- Sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 09:32 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Thanks Ian its nice of you.I have spent about a month in New Delhi and it is can be pretty brutal.I have had the experience of being drugged at Delhi biggest Railway station .Delhi is bad after dark and I had to take a 4.00 am train.So i took a rickshaw to the station before sunset and hoped to catch the train early in the morning.The police outpost got deserted at around 11.30 and some "kind" fellow traveler offered me tea.I woke up in a stupor relieved of all my belongings except for my passport.The delhi police took a statement saying that i has "lost' my belongings gave me a third class ticket and rs 100 to travel 2000 kms home.fortunately I remembered my bank account so gave the police information report to the bank and withdrew my money.
So it is a very dangerous place.Beatings muggings etc are commonplace.
The second thing is that many politicians have criminal records so there is a nexus between criminals police and politicians.Here I highlight only rape related crimes but the list includes smugglers ,assault cases,corruption land grabs,communal violence aginst minorities
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ffice.html

Quote:
At least 20 men accused of raping women ran in Indian elections in the last five years, according to a think-tank report published amid growing outrage over the gang-rape of a student on a bus.

This does not exclude so called catholics
http://www.firstpost.com/fwire/john-fer ... 15820.html

http://www.digitalgoa.com/ca_disp.php?id=1207
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/goa-politici ... 174-3.html

Another aspect is the " police".In one case drugs were actually planted on an individual and in another police had sex with the prostitutes who could not bribe them.

The police are also brutes .Beating up unarmed protestors is not uncommon.If a protestor dies then no one investigates the case(hahhaha).So when students beat up Subhash Tomar they were in a war zone.
Sadly also when the victim is critical he is not admitted to hospital as no one wants the burden of his death.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... dial-death

The status of women in indian society -female infanticide,dowry death,high domestic violence also needs to be examined

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 09:38 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 63127.aspx

Quote:
A teenage girl was shot dead and her mother injured when they objected to their neighbour urinating in front of their house at Hazrat Nizamuddin in south-east Delhi.

Unlicensed guns "kattas" are easily available in UP and Bihar

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 09:50 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Domestic violence in india is simply amazing.I have heard a woman being beat up for nearly an hour and none of the neighbors bothered .In Karnataka 1/5 gets beaten .I also dont know what are the reasons for large scale human trafficking in india -sex slavery-girls brought from Nepal and Andhra pradesh to new delhi and mumbai.Poverty definitely is one but one must be a real criminal to do so in such a brazen manner

http://news.fullhyderabad.com/hyderabad ... order=DESC

Quote:
Hundreds of men came to attack the centre with swords, chains and stones. I rushed to meet the so-called leaders of this place. Before I started my meeting I insisted that the women should be there, too, and in the presence of these women, I explained to the leaders the work we were doing.

The leaders then asked whether prostitution occurs in that area, and I replied that I would not answer the question.

To this, the main leader declared loudly that he would kill me and "cut me into pieces". He also threatened to close all my other centres.

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 10:00 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

What is interesting is the smile on the policemens face -they enjoy their job -no accountability

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 10:21 
Offline
Proficient Member
Proficient Member

Joined: 11 Sep 2009 10:31
Posts: 959
Location: Roman Catholic (OblateSB)
Prayers offered for her. :(

_________________
-Lou (Louis)
Image
ORA et LABORA
Totus Tuus
Cacciatore/Fungaiolo
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 10:31 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Whats also interesting is the way the Delhi authorities have handled the case.

Before raping the girl the occupants of the bus had robbed another passenger .The bus traveled 31.4 kms during the rape thro 3 police checkposts.The Delhi police cracked the case in under 24 hrs

Retd Gen V K Singh who led some protesters has been stripped of his security.Shelia Dikshit Delhi chief minister and Neeraj Kumar are engaged in a blame game of the recording of the victims statement

The victim was shifted to Singapore after she suffered a pulmonary arrest

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 777000.cms?

Quote:
Nirbhaya's condition worsened last night when she suffered a cardiac arrest and was revived after administration of CPR (cardiac pulmonary resuscitation). Through Wednesday, doctors at Safdarjung hospital struggled to fight the infection seeping through her body.

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 11:10 
Online
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2004 08:50
Posts: 6594
Location: Singapore
Simon,

I think the details of this most terrible crime have been detailed amply over the various news media both inside and outside of India. So, I don't think more information is going to be helpful in a discussion that has potential to explore.

Brutalities of this nature against women are not exclusive to India and you will find that they happen across countries around the globe, whether in advance or backward societies. We could try and move this thread forward by exploring why men are reduced to sub-human behaviour, what are the causes and where religion, especially the Catholic Church, has fallen short and can play a better role in advancing the interest of women and the weak through their moral teachings.

India has great potential, but although it is fast rising as one of the biggest producers of priests and religious men and women for the world, it is still by and large mission land for the Church.

Any updates on the condition of the victim is of course most welcome, and I will do my part in providing them as they are made available here.

_________________
Ian DC
Blessed Ever Virgin Mary -- Sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 15:46 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Quote:
especially the Catholic Church, has fallen short


Quite sincerely I dont feel the Catholic Church has fallen short we are less than 2% in India

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 16:19 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 10 Dec 2003 01:07
Posts: 14695
Location: Sydney, Australia
Quote:
The 23-year-old has already undergone three operations in India. She was airlifted from a hospital in New Delhi to the Mount Elizabeth Hospital overnight.

In a statement, the Mount Elizabeth Hospital described her condition in the intensive care unit as "extremely critical".

The Indian government, which is paying for the woman's treatment, approved the decision to transfer her from Delhi's Safdarjung Hospital where she had been treated since the December 16 assault on a bus in the centre of the capital.

Visa arrangements were also fast-tracked to enable the victim's relatives to keep watch over her in Singapore.

"The hospital and the family have requested that the privacy of the patient and the family be respected," a statement from the high commission said.

While doctors in Singapore did not give details about the treatment she has received since her early morning arrival, their counterparts at Safdarjung said Mount Elizabeth had been chosen as it has a multi-organ transplant facility.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-27/i ... nt/4445226

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 17:02 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 10 Dec 2003 01:07
Posts: 14695
Location: Sydney, Australia
From Cardinal Gracias, Archbishop of Bombay

Quote:
All these violations against women should be examined in context to the interest of society. The root is the same, the disregard for God, being manifest in these forms. The woman is being commoditised, disrespected and done away with; the girl child is discriminated against in life and also before she is born. This calls for an attitudinal change that goes beyond the law, beyond self-interest, beyond self-preservation in always seeking what is truly good for the wellbeing of others, as indeed of themselves.


http://www.news.va/en/news/indian-cardi ... revalent-c

Quote:
In this Year of Faith, as we celebrate Christmas, we pray for our beloved motherland, whose daughters are in anguish and agony and we pray for the peace of Christmas. Peace is what we all yearn for. It is not an empty desire. It is a hope, a hope founded on faith. We will not see the fullness of peace realised until Christ comes again at the end of time. But we cannot wait until then. We need to pray and work for peace now. When we believe, we give birth to Christ in the world by working for peace.


_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 18:45 
Online
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2004 08:50
Posts: 6594
Location: Singapore
Thank you, James, for setting the tone. That was what I was hoping for in this thread.

_________________
Ian DC
Blessed Ever Virgin Mary -- Sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 20:42 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 10 Dec 2003 01:07
Posts: 14695
Location: Sydney, Australia
Perhaps Cardinal Gracias was thinking of the social teaching of Bl John Paul II

Quote:
Unfortunately, we are heirs to a history which has conditioned us to a remarkable extent. In every time and place, this conditioning has been an obstacle to the progress of women. Women's dignity has often been unacknowledged and their prerogatives misrepresented; they have often been relegated to the margins of society and even reduced to servitude. This has prevented women from truly being themselves and it has resulted in a spiritual impoverishment of humanity. Certainly it is no easy task to assign the blame for this, considering the many kinds of cultural conditioning which down the centuries have shaped ways of thinking and acting.


http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_ ... en_en.html

Quote:
When it comes to setting women free from every kind of exploitation and domination, the Gospel contains an ever relevant message which goes back to the attitude of Jesus Christ himself. Transcending the established norms of his own culture, Jesus treated women with openness, respect, acceptance and tenderness. In this way he honoured the dignity which women have always possessed according to God's plan and in his love.


Quote:
The time has come to condemn vigorously the types of sexual violence which frequently have women for their object and to pass laws which effectively defend them from such violence. Nor can we fail, in the name of the respect due to the human person, to condemn the widespread hedonistic and commercial culture which encourages the systematic exploitation of sexuality and corrupts even very young girls into letting their bodies be used for profit.

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012 11:53 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Quote:
it is still by and large mission land for the Church.


Yes,but foreign Missionaries are not allowed in many states.This is very bad because Indians don't see Westerners for they they really are.

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012 23:14 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 23:35
Posts: 5278
Location: Europe
Were the woman and her boyfriend minorities? I don't understand from anything I've read WHY this particular couple was set upon in a bus.

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2012 03:49 
Online
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2004 08:50
Posts: 6594
Location: Singapore
Grace,

If the voices coming out of India in the aftermath of the sexual assault of the student and her death are any measure, it is about a deeply embedded culture of misogyny in India. It is so ingrained in life there that even complaints of rape and molest are often not treated seriously by law enforcers and the judiciary. Even during demonstrations in various Indian cities yesterday calling for stiffer penalties for rape and and an overhaul of the police, women were groped. That's how lax the law is applied to sex crimes in the country that it emboldens men to rape with impunity.

But the law is one thing. Women and responsible men across all levels of society in India are calling for a change of mindset in the nation if victims of sexual crimes are to get real justice.

_________________
Ian DC
Blessed Ever Virgin Mary -- Sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2012 03:55 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
No they were not minorities.They were Hindus,the girl was from Ballia In Uttar Pradesh-the state that borders nepal.She had come to Delhi to study.They tried to save money by taking public transport after 9.30 pm after a movie.This was a bus doing illegal rounds
As I have already said Delhi is a dangerous place specially after dark.You just cant trust people.Honestly I have been given wrong directions there.Very rude people.I once asked at a Govt office the way to another and I was almost told to go to hell.I am from south india so they knew from my Hindi accent that and my features that I was not North Indian.I had gone to Delhi to make some documents.In public spaces the behaviour is rough.When I entered Delhi by train at night via Agra -the platform was full of armed police something that one does not see in more peaceful areas
At railway platforms -the women group together so that they have more security.
Christianity makes us human otherwise we are beasts
Mugging robbing and other crimes are common in New Delhi.
There is a bigger problem of ATTITUDES towards women.
I really dont know this first hand-female infanticide-bad behaviour towards the girl child,dowry and domestic violence.
See the public reaction -it would not be so if something was not drastically wrong with the society.
Police attitudes are bad,the govt took a week to make a statement and law is weak.
Sheila Dikshit-the chief minister and the police commissioner Neeraj Kumar got into a fight.
Things are bad and dangerous.
The criminals thought they would escape-at least one is a repeat offender.

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2012 04:05 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
A bad thing to say but to be said nonetheless.In western societies its women first.so men give seats to women ,women enter buses first etc.
Here it is the law of the jungle, strongest in first
Here in buses there are separate entrances-the front for women and the rear for men.Front seats are reserved for women and the rear for men.There are separate carriages for women on metro trains with police escorts in all major cities .
Once my sister took an interstate bus and booked both sleepers 2 seats for herself

Quote:
WHY this particular couple was set upon in a bus.

Lots of crime takes place its just that you dont hear about it

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2012 04:30 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 23:35
Posts: 5278
Location: Europe
Thanks for your responses. I didn't realise it was so dangerous.

Maybe this can be a turning point.

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2012 04:37 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Quote:
complaints of rape and molest are often not treated seriously by law enforcers


It not only rape but other crimes as well

Bribing is common and the law is what the boss says.If the top policeman gets bribes from criminals or if politicians want crime -like smuggling liqour then the policeman could be wasting his time.Police live in horrific conditions no proper accommodation,no toilets no proper canteens-they may have to pay a bribe to get in the force.The judiciary too can be controlled .NO proper separation of judiciary, politicians and police -so if I book a crime it will take years for it to come to its conclusion.Numerous visits to the court.so it is best to avoid the crime scene and not help the victim>police are understaffed once i had to wait 2 hours just to meet the police
Lot of migrants from other states too

Why such few convictions in Orissa /Karnataka attacks on Christians? What were the police doing during the attacks ?

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 30 Dec 2012 14:10 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: The Off-Topic Thread
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2013 03:31 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
A grainy image of 4 of the 6 rapists (after capture)
I can imagine that they will be treated worse than dogs

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2013 06:39 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Quote:
Maybe this can be a turning point.
Its a tipping point rather than a turning point.The Commission set up to reform the Law -Justice Verma commission has already received more than 17000 suggestions.A task force has been set upto monitor the Delhi Police.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/centre-sets- ... 354-3.html
My choice for reform is this woman Dr Kiran Bedi
Quote:
She attended the Sacred Heart Convent School, Amritsar,
The Catholic Church has in some way produced this woman

http://www.kiranbedi.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiran_Bedi
http://books.google.co.in/books/about/I ... edir_esc=y

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2013 09:32 
Online
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 07 Aug 2004 08:50
Posts: 6594
Location: Singapore
Simon,

I've moved one of your posts which you posted in another thread here. Please do not post this subject anywhere else, unless another topic from this incident can be discussed.

_________________
Ian DC
Blessed Ever Virgin Mary -- Sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2013 13:03 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Quote:
India has great potential, but although it is fast rising

Economically yes ,I dont know anything of economics but the change in GDP in my home state Goa was 13%..However how have we evolved as a society?And what should be the direction we are taking?We no longer live in joint families.Also the dressing styles of women have changed.The traditional Indian dress has been discarded-no salwar kammez- and no sarees among unmarried young women.
There are some colleges where it is illegal for women to wear jeans.Also Delhi leads Indian cities in rapes and other lewd behavior.Cities have anonymity so criminals think that they can escape.
The sense of community is very poor in cities.Indians still associate mainly with their own language groups,their own castes and with people of their own religion.
Educated Indian women migrate to the cities for work. Our rape victim had her roots in a village but came to New Delhi to further qualify herself.
There are people like Pramod Muthalik of the sri ram Sene(lord rams army) who have beaten up girls drinking in bars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pramod_Muthalik


http://world.rediff.com/news/article/ww ... target.htm
Quote:
After the 2009 Mangalore pub attack, where women were beaten (because, according to the attackers, the women were indulging in anti-cultural acts), Pramod Muthalik said: Citing traditional values of India, "Girls going to pubs is not acceptable."Why are women always the target of these social disciplinarians? They beat them up, abuse them, tell them what to wear or not, be a nice housewife because that's what the 'religious ideal' is, be a mother and an obedient wife, go to places of worship and read the holy scriptures.

There is nothing wrong with that, but do these worthies have a right and a moral authority to tell women all these codes of conduct while they flounder and abuse every bit of simple, civil behaviour in their life?

Since religion playsa major part in social values in india one would have to examine how hindus and muslims view the roles of women

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2013 13:18 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Burkhas intrigue me.I ask myself "is this forced or done in freedom?

http://www.30-days.net/muslims/muslims- ... dia-women/

Muslim Women in India

Quote:
The God Who Sees
“O my creator, I plead before you, implore you time and time again. In the next incarnation don’t make me a girl child. In hell instead let me wane.” (An Eastern UP Folk song quoted by Quratulain Hyder in Chaar Novalettes)

UP -Uttar Pradesh-the home state of the gang rape victim

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2013 20:02 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member

Joined: 16 Jul 2002 16:28
Posts: 9037
Simon, thank you for updating us on this incredible suffering.

If we strive to always have Jesus present in our midst, "where two or more are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst" ...if He grants it, who knows what helpful blessings for them will come about.


Mary

_________________
"Those who encounter the Risen Jesus
and entrust themselves docilely to him have nothing to fear.
This is the message that Christians are called to spread
to the very ends of the earth." Benedict XVI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2013 20:34 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Quote:
Simon, thank you for updating us on this incredible suffering.

If we strive to always have Jesus present in our midst, "where two or more are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst" ...if He grants it, who knows what helpful blessings for them will come about.

Its my pleasure-I have been in Delhi only for a month so dont really know beyond the surface. I dont know if I should investigate the police culture which is "beat first and then ask questions" I did not enjoy being there but was happy to participate in a Hindi Mass.The catholic church runs a prestigious school st Columbus High School and a prestigious college Stephens College .The Archbishop elect is from my state but I dont know how he is working in New Delhi.
What I don't like about myself is that I have given up trying to change things and have become a passive spectator

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013 06:57 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Quote:
He grants it, who knows what helpful blessings

India has many blessings -It is an incredibly beautiful country away from the cities-it is varied

Big american software companies did not invest here for nothing-lots of research goes on

Being with the poor is a blessing because they are grateful for pennies.Also its a huge opportunity to educate and make a difference .

We have had outstanding Catholic police officers like Julio Ribeiro and M Pereira http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell_Pereira and even the Chief of Army staff -Gen Sunith Rodrigues

Sonia Gandhi is a Catholic and and Delhis Chief Minister Sheila Dixshit studied in convent
The challenges are huge also -but then God is Almighty

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013 11:55 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
http://www.youthkiawaaz.com/2012/06/tor ... -of-women/

Quote:
Fearing for her life, she fled to New Delhi for assistance but she was eventually arrested from there and taken back to Chhatisgarh police station for interrogation. Here, Suri who was not even healthy enough to go to the courtroom to give her statement was brutally tortured. Under the bleak promise of safety and protection she was tortured and sexually harassed. She had deep concussions on her head as if some heavy object had hit her. She was stripped and given electric shocks. She complained of aches, pains and injuries.

This is not the end of the story. She was denied treatment at AIMS hospital Chhatisgarh because the time allotted to admit patients was over and it was after the interference of NHRC that she was admitted in the hospital. Here two main atrocities are brought in limelight- custodial torture and the politically prepared moves of hospitals. Both from the most trusted organizations in India. Custodial injuries and deaths exist from a very long time. Numerous cases get registered. Some get lucky and some get punished.

Asian Center for Human Rights in its report of torture in India 2009 revealed that the highest number of custodial deaths was reported in Maharashtra with 192 cases, then Uttar Pradesh with 128 cases, Gujarat 113 cases, Andhra Pradesh 85 cases, West Bengal 83 cases, Tamil Nadu 76 cases, Assam 74 cases, Karnataka 55 cases, Punjab 41 cases, Madhya Pradesh with 38 cases, Bihar and Rajasthan with 32 cases each, Haryana with 31 cases, Kerala 30 cases, Jharkhand 29 cases, Delhi 25 cases, Orissa 24 cases, Chhatisgarh 23 cases, Uttarakhand and Meghalaya 16 cases each, Arunachal Pradesh with 11 cases, Jammu and Kashmir and Tripura with 9 cases each, Puducherry and Chandigarh with 2 cases each and Goa, Sikkim, Dadra and Nagar Haveli with one case each. This was what was recorded but according to ACHR, most of the cases are not recorded and kept are kept in eternal darkness.

The prevention of torture bill is also a sham as the definition of torture and the punishment, all is comprised in three paragraphs. The punishments mentioned in convention against torture are much more lenient than the ones mentioned by court for such crimes in general. While men have it bad, women are certainly in for worse. In name of interrogation, women are tortured without any limits or shame. They are raped. Sexually exploited and are subjected to the most menial treatment. Soni Suri’s cases came into public eye by luck and because she is literate, but many Soni Suris never see the light of the day. Certainly the government should take serious steps in improving the living conditions of prison inmates and also the conditions for the citizens who are taken in for interrogation. Supreme court should penalize and punish the officials who indulge in custodial tortures and correct the judiciary and the administrative. Every Indian citizen surely hopes for Soni Suri s truth to be out to the world so that the culprits can be punished. Let her be successful in her endeavors

Need of the hour is to remove malpractices in Indian judicial body as well as police forces because if the ones who are supposed to safeguard the citizens are the ones to blame, then India is surely on the path of doom.




Even if one has an impeccable record police can make life difficult.Recently I had to wait 2 hrs just to get myself checked /interviewed by the police.The interview consisted of shouts and eventually I was asked why I did not use the national langage Hindi.I am very cheeky and told the policeman that his Hindi was so bad that I was forced to use English when speaking to him :wink:

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013 14:50 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member

Joined: 16 Jul 2002 16:28
Posts: 9037
Quote:

Even if one has an impeccable record police can make life difficult.Recently I had to wait 2 hrs just to get myself checked /interviewed by the police.The interview consisted of shouts and eventually I was asked why I did not use the national langage Hindi.I am very cheeky and told the policeman that his Hindi was so bad that I was forced to use English when speaking to him :wink:



Simon...that's precisely what my son would have done, and said !!!


Mary

_________________
"Those who encounter the Risen Jesus
and entrust themselves docilely to him have nothing to fear.
This is the message that Christians are called to spread
to the very ends of the earth." Benedict XVI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013 16:21 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2002 05:16
Posts: 15743
Location: Southern California, Catholic
One is led to ask: Did the situation improve with independence? If not, why not?

_________________
- Joe Kelley

Death is only a shadow across the path to Heaven.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013 16:43 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2003 13:32
Posts: 4972
Arwen wrote:
Thanks for your responses. I didn't realise it was so dangerous.

Maybe this can be a turning point.


Maybe.

Delhi women gun for licences; rape triggers big rush to acquire arms

-small excerpt:
Quote:
NEW DELHI: The horrific attack on Nirbhaya has led to a spurt in requests for gun licences from women. Since December 18, the day the news of the brutal gang rape appeared in newspapers, the licensing department of Delhi Police has received a total of 274 applications from women. In addition, it has also been flooded with hundreds of queries on how to obtain a licence.

"We have received over 1,200 calls since that day. These include not only the average working woman, but even students who travel long distances to colleges and even their concerned parents. They were eager to find out more on the procedure to acquire arms," said a Delhi police officer.

_________________
Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013 19:21 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Quote:
One is led to ask: Did the situation improve with independence? If not, why not?


India has a growth rate of 7-8 % economically .So there is no question that the country has seen a sea change.
I dont know much of British rule in India but there is still a lot of hatred specially in North India.in 1857 the indian army mutinied ,150 years later the descendants of the British fallen came to pay their respects at cemetery(at meerut).Indian uncouth holed them up in a hotel pelted eggs at them and forced them to get back to england in a hurry.
The British did abolish sati in India started schools and colleges
However to my mind social change has to come from within
Thats where Christianity kicks in.
God becomes Incarnate in this culture and transforms it
I think no end of the church in india and the change it has wrought -so am not apologetic
Its is everywhere -from curbing illegal mining to curbing police atrocities to education to hospitals

Christ the light of the world,the leaven in the bread-"he who walks with me shall not walk in darkness"

Hinduism has evils it it and just maybe its attitude towards women
symptoms-female infanticide
-domestic violence
- dowry
-discrimination against the girl child
-role of women in society
Hindus constitute 80% so their traditions impact society
Muslims -another 13 % another even more backward Class
There is caste- ism and fatalistic attitudes also regionalism and communalism ,lack of etiquette ,civic sense,corruption,nexus between criminals and politicians police and the judiciary
Please ask me what you would like more detailed

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013 20:19 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Given that the rapist was a bus driver from rajasthan

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kaushalsingh/5163116016/

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013 20:31 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
http://www.smh.com.au/world/contradicti ... =text-only

http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/Singl ... d=59493343

Since criminals are made not born

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013 21:26 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karva_Chauth

How can such trash foster proper attitudes?

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013 21:36 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Quote:
One is led to ask: Did the situation improve with independence? If not, why not?
http://news.oneindia.in/feature/2013/go ... 24480.html

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2013 06:53 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
One reason that the victims tooka 'public" bus rather than an auto rickshaw is that Rickshaws in delhi and elsewhere are cheats during the day- never mind after dark
I had stayed near Khan Market and had to Mansingh Road and the rickshaw would charge rs 60 or so when the bus would take rs 8.Sometimes there was no option but I never took a rickshaw after dark.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/auto ... lhi-301602

Quote:
An auto-rickshaw driver in New Delhi stabbed a passenger to death who accused him of trying to extort an additional fare of Rs. 50, police said on Wednesday. The accused is on the run.

"Izahar was stabbed five times in the abdomen and chest by the auto-rickshaw driver in (west Delhi's) Punjabi Bagh on Monday," Additional Commissioner of Police V. Renganathan told IANS.

Izahar, 25, and his friend Subhan Khan, both rubber factory workers, were travelling in the auto-rickshaw when the driver asked them to pay an additional Rs. 50 fare, police said.


"When Izahar refused to give the money, the diver stabbed him," said a police officer.

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2013 16:47 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Is there any link between artificial contraception and increased sexual assaults on women?

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2013 17:04 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 10 Dec 2003 01:07
Posts: 14695
Location: Sydney, Australia
Simon,

Quote:
Is there any link between artificial contraception and increased sexual assaults on women?


Certainly. As Cardinal Gracias (see above) has said

Quote:
The woman is being commoditised, disrespected and done away with


Sexual assault, prostitution, abortion and contraception are all of a piece. Bl John Paul II (see above) understood this well

Quote:
The time has come to condemn vigorously the types of sexual violence which frequently have women for their object and to pass laws which effectively defend them from such violence. Nor can we fail, in the name of the respect due to the human person, to condemn the widespread hedonistic and commercial culture which encourages the systematic exploitation of sexuality and corrupts even very young girls into letting their bodies be used for profit.


All of them have to do with the evil of the commodifying and commercialising of the human person and the evil of subjecting human sexuality to market forces.

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2013 17:05 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2003 13:32
Posts: 4972
fsimon wrote:
Is there any link between artificial contraception and increased sexual assaults on women?



In my opinion; yes, contraception tends to promote the objectification of women by removing the consequence of pregnancy from the sexual act thereby denying the procreative aspect of the act and all that is humanity that necessarily follows from such e.g. motherhood, children, and family.

For instance, a woman is no longer looked upon as a wife, mother or as a daughter BUT rather as a sexual object -an object like property to be exploited rather than a human being to be respected.

_________________
Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2013 17:29 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Thanks for your replies Dim and Seamas -I would never be able to find this in my real life offline.In India there is another problem -that is being a good Samaritan is overlooked.Our victims friend is an example
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 878286.cms

Quote:
The boy's family has, meanwhile, quietly returned to hometown Gorakhpur. Acute financial crisis and official apathy saw them leave, the young man's father said.

"Our job is done. My son did his best but was ignored. He, too, is a victim of the brutality which took place in such a brazen manner but the authorities overlooked that. It was because of him that they were able to locate the bus and the accused so quickly," the father, an advocate, said.

The young man has fractures on his right leg and injuries on the skull. "However, not a single official met him. Leave aside financial help or counselling, they did not even pay for his medicines. I had to borrow money from relatives. We are not asking for a favour, only fair treatment," he added.

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2013 18:19 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
A young Bengali girl was not allowed to join work at Calcutta because her father thought that her marriage had a priority over work.He could present his daughter as undefiled by the workplace.

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013 08:04 
Offline
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 04 Jan 2005 20:15
Posts: 3070
Location: India
Life of Pi v/s life of Christ
===================
The life of Christ is far more important than the "life of pi".I too have a great admiration for the American Scientific Culture but think that learning about the life of christ is more fundamental to Indian Society than Life of Pi.
Our software engineer was very proficient with Microsoft and other software
The question to me is how relevant was the message of Christ to this unfortunate couple.
Studying technology and management techniques is all great but forgetting Christ the foundation is no way to go.
Across India we have a lot of educated young people who would probably know America only in terms of technology and not as a Christian Nation
Have they missed something or is my imagination working overtime?
=============================================================
Our rapists on the other hand probably did not understand english their movie diet was Bollywood or Indian cinema.A very definite clash.So in their mind a couple together at 10.00 pm meant the girl was easily available and cheap.Bihar & Uttar Pradesh are states which pride themselves on their lawlessness

_________________
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 79 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group