Catholic Online Forum

The first interactive Catholic Forum on the web
It is currently 19 May 2013 07:11

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 21 May 2011 14:35 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2007 18:14
Posts: 4746
Vatican cardinal: Charity is not welfare activity, but a witness to God
“Of course, charity must respond to the immediate needs of those who are suffering,” said Cardinal Robert Sarah, addressing Caritas Europa officials at a Vatican gathering on May 21. “But it cannot ignore the deepest cause of suffering of the human person, which is the very absence of God.”

“Hence, rather than first being oriented to society,” he noted, “the primary characteristic of such exercise is to bear witness to God.”
.........
“Our fundamental purpose is not to go out and help the poor,” said Ozanam, whose organization is well-known for its service to the needy. “For us, this has only been a means. Our purpose is to maintain the Catholic faith within us, and to allow its diffusion to others through the instrument of charity.”
........
Recently, however, Vatican officials have found the need to strengthen Caritas' Catholic identity and increase its focus on evangelization.

Disagreement over the new direction led the Vatican to seek a replacement for Caritas Internationalis Secretary General Lesley-Anne Knight earlier this year. The Holy See appreciated many of Knight's accomplishments, but sought a “new profile” after she criticized its vision for Caritas in the press.
........
“For the Church, charity is not a kind of welfare activity which could equally well be left to others,” the Pope wrote in a passage highlighted by Cardinal Sarah. In fact, charity is “inseparable” from the Church's other two fundamental tasks: “to proclaim the word of God” and “celebrate the sacraments.”


http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/ ... ly+News%29

_________________
In Christ
Kim, M



"....abstinence and chastity, dispose man very much to the perfection of intellectual operation.” St Thomas Aquinas


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 May 2011 15:20 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2002 05:16
Posts: 15696
Location: Southern California, Catholic
It would help if the Church emphasized that it is the virtue of love rather than of justice, which is much further down the list of virtues.

_________________
- Joe Kelley

Death is only a shadow across the path to Heaven.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 May 2011 15:28 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2002 16:21
Posts: 15595
Location: Los Angeles, CA
gabriel wrote:
It would help if the Church emphasized that it is the virtue of love rather than of justice, which is much further down the list of virtues.

What does "further down the list" mean?

_________________
David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 May 2011 18:01 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2003 13:32
Posts: 4919
The USCCB needs to embrace this message.

_________________
Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 May 2011 06:04 
Offline
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2004 07:30
Posts: 10832
Location: Rome, Italy
JMJ

I don't know how much the report can be trusted since it's from the "Catholic" magazine The Tablet aka "The Bitter Pill" aka "RU486". Fr. Radcliffe is a former General of the Order of Preachers. I think we met him before in older threads.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/report ... conference

Quote:
VATICAN CITY, May 20, 2011 (http://www.lifesitenews.com/) - The UK Catholic weekly The Tablet reports today that the Vatican has cancelled the speaking engagement of a former head of the Dominican order at the upcoming general assembly of Caritas Internationalis. According to the paper, Fr. Timothy Radcliffe was set to deliver the keynote opening address Monday and had already prepared his talk.

Radcliffe is known as a very liberal prelate and is remembered by many for suggesting that, rather than ban homosexual men from the priesthood, those who express “homophobia” should be banned.

Writing in the London Times, Radcliffe said of the then-upcoming Vatican document banning homosexuals in the priesthood, “If it were to contain such a ban, which is highly unlikely, most Catholics, at least in the West, would find it unacceptable. Any deep-rooted prejudice against others, such as homophobia or misogyny, would be grounds for rejecting a candidate for the priesthood, but not their sexual orientation.”

The news of Radcliffe’s cancelation has reignited talk about the Vatican’s moves to reform the Caritas agency and it’s worldwide affiliates many of which have struggled with questions of authentic Catholic principles and identity.

In Vatican circles discussion of the reformation of the Caritas agency in light of Pope Benedict XVI’s encyclical Caritas in Veritate became animated in February when the Vatican refused to allow Caritas General Secretary Lesley-Anne Knight to submit her name for reelection to her position, citing the need to strengthen the organization’s “Catholic identity,” among other concerns.


Please pray for the Church, especially for our clergy and our shepherds who have the responsibility governing, teaching and sanctifying us.

_________________
Image FabrizioParty like it's 1773!Image

The safest place for me to be is in the center of God's will, and if that is in the line of fire, that's where I'll be-Fr. T. Vakoc


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 May 2011 19:10 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2002 05:16
Posts: 15696
Location: Southern California, Catholic
Recent Vatican actions on Caritas seem to indicate some corrections on views of the Church and Social Justice

Vatican Cardinal warns of ‘silent apostasy’; says Catholic charities must evangelize

Quote:
In an address to the General Assembly of Caritas International today, Cardinal Robert Sarah, who heads the Vatican dicastery dealing with the church’s charitable institutions, stressed that the main mission of all Church groups, charitable groups included, was to bring people to Christ. “Today, dear Friends, the tragedy of modern mankind is not lacking clothing and housing. The most tragic hunger and the most terrible anguish is not lack of food,” he said. “It’s much more about the absence of God and the lack of true love, the love that was revealed to us on the Cross.”…

“I believe it is important to understand that our charitable organisations are located within the Church and not alongside her,” he said. “A Caritas that wasn’t an ecclesial expression would have no meaning or existence. The Church cannot be considered as a partner of Catholic organisations. They are the organisations that take part in her mission.” ...

“So it is necessary that charitable organisations are really able to work in full communion and deep connection with the local bishop,” he said, “and in accordance with pastoral guidelines, in order to be fully integrated within the mission of the Church. “

_________________
- Joe Kelley

Death is only a shadow across the path to Heaven.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 May 2011 00:06 
Offline
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2004 07:30
Posts: 10832
Location: Rome, Italy
JMJ

Rather than a correction I would speak of a return to what the Church always taught Social Justice to be, which is not mere philantrophy and much less socialism. Maybe it seems a correction because we can hardly recall a time when the Bishop of Rome would say something and the rest of the bishops would not say and do something else entirely in this regard. I don't know how many times Paul VI and especially John Paul II lamented and wrote about the lethal disconnect between the stated principles of the Church as regards social justice and the reality of so many dioceses and "Catholic" organizations.

One of the reasons why John Paul II was so hated in certain quarters was precisely his effort against Liberation Theology which brought to light the thological and ideological roots of the "silent apostasy" of so many charities and so-called social justice organizations.

_________________
Image FabrizioParty like it's 1773!Image

The safest place for me to be is in the center of God's will, and if that is in the line of fire, that's where I'll be-Fr. T. Vakoc


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 May 2011 08:17 
Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2009 15:57
Posts: 2759
I consider Christian Charity and Social Justice two entirely separate concepts; right or wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.

Christian Charity, any religion-based charity, is promulgated through faith and compelled by compassion. Christian Charity therefore honors God, is wholesome and an asset to society.

Social Justice implies a right to all national, community and personal resources regardless of any legitimacy, effort or lack thereof to attain those resources; it is Socialistic in nature and pernicious.

One doesn't have to delve very deeply into Social Justice programs to discover ulterior motives on the part of the sponsors.

_________________
BobA

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 May 2011 10:27 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2003 13:32
Posts: 4919
In my opinion the perverted version of social justice is premised at its root upon denying the abundance that God provides. The perverted justice sought for the oppressed is premised upon taking from the oppressors and as a result liberating the oppressed. The taking is accomplished through force (power); this is what community organizing is all about; attaining and consolidating power.

Socialism, liberation theology, Marxism, this perverted social justice we discuss now; all the same thing with different labels.

_________________
Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 May 2011 15:43 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2002 05:16
Posts: 15696
Location: Southern California, Catholic
bali wrote:
I consider Christian Charity and Social Justice two entirely separate concepts; right or wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.

Christian Charity, any religion-based charity, is promulgated through faith and compelled by compassion. Christian Charity therefore honors God, is wholesome and an asset to society.

Social Justice implies a right to all national, community and personal resources regardless of any legitimacy, effort or lack thereof to attain those resources; it is Socialistic in nature and pernicious.

One doesn't have to delve very deeply into Social Justice programs to discover ulterior motives on the part of the sponsors.
I agree. Charity imposes an obligation on the giver to share. Social Justice is declares it a right of the recipient.

_________________
- Joe Kelley

Death is only a shadow across the path to Heaven.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 May 2011 17:25 
Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member

Joined: 01 Mar 2009 06:51
Posts: 1789
Let’s step back and take a broader look at this social justice thing, whatever that is. :roll:

In late 1940 Roosevelt held a press conference*** in which he tried to signal to an isolationist America they would have to do a lot to help the British fight Hitler and prevent the Nazis from taking over all of Europe, which would really leave America in big trouble. To rally patriotic favor he spoke about “the four freedoms”. Later, he repeated these points, which were a hit, at a State of the Union address.

Quote:
"In the future days, which we seek to make secure, we look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms.

The first is freedom of speech and expression—everywhere in the world.

The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way--everywhere in the world.

The third is freedom from want—which, translated into world terms, means economic understandings which will secure to every nation a healthy peacetime life for its inhabitants—everywhere in the world.

The fourth is freedom from fear—which, translated into world terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a position to commit an act of physical aggression against any neighbor—anywhere in the world.

That is no vision of a distant millennium. It is a definite basis for a kind of world attainable in our own time and generation. That kind of world is the very antithesis of the so-called new order of tyranny which the dictators seek to create with the crash of a bomb. ”
— Franklin D. Roosevelt, excerpted from the State of the Union Address to the Congress, January 6, 1941


Social Justice is often thought of as an economic matter, as implied by FDR’s ’freedom from want', but the four freedoms reminds us there is no social justice without all these rights. There was no social justice in Nazi Germany. There was in America, and this gave us the strength to win.
The people in America were also much happier than those in Germany, which I think must have something to do with social justice.

*** from a biography of General George Marshal

_________________
Norman
...that is the regret of a lot of old people when they look back and realize too late what might have been.
This was what President Martin regretted. He thought he was doing something good. It was a disaster. How can anybody know what is the right thing to do?
-- Theresa


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 May 2011 04:07 
Offline
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2004 07:30
Posts: 10832
Location: Rome, Italy
JMJ
gabriel wrote:
bali wrote:
I consider Christian Charity and Social Justice two entirely separate concepts; right or wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.

Christian Charity, any religion-based charity, is promulgated through faith and compelled by compassion. Christian Charity therefore honors God, is wholesome and an asset to society.

Social Justice implies a right to all national, community and personal resources regardless of any legitimacy, effort or lack thereof to attain those resources; it is Socialistic in nature and pernicious.

One doesn't have to delve very deeply into Social Justice programs to discover ulterior motives on the part of the sponsors.
I agree. Charity imposes an obligation on the giver to share. Social Justice is declares it a right of the recipient.

Friends,

I think that we should not renounce our Catholic terminology, phrases and definitions and leave them to the enemy - because make no mistake, it's an enemy, a mortal one, even though of course not all who have fallen pray of these deceptions are our enemies. Not only "social justice" has nothing to do with socialism, statism, centralization, you name it, but it is in fact the contrary of all of them (socialism being inherently unjust, btw, for its being based on a wrong anthropology, whence the rejection of all fundamental rights of the person and an unacceptable idea of society. The Church insists on the anthropological litmus test to underscore its fundamental irreconcilability with socialist errors).

The phrase "Social Justice" was coined by a great 1800 Italian Jesuit priest and philosopher, Fr. Luigi Taparelli D'Azeglio, who derived it from the works of (you guessed it) St. Thomas Aquinas, not perchance one of the - if not "the" - Catholic fathers of the doctrines on limited government, free economy and private property. The Catechism devolves an entire chapter in four parts to SJ - not per chance within the part of CCC titled "the Life in Christ", and other parts elsewhere in the text as well. The Magisterium has been crystal clear about the Catholic meaning of this phrase and such meaning is NOT that of having government ruling society by forced redistribution of wealth and a culture of entitlement.

Fr. Taparelli - who wrote excellent pages on the errors of Liberalism and liberals - saw very well how the separation of moral law and human legislation had led to all of the abuses that had their frightening embodiment in the authoritarian liberal states of 1800 Europe, when governments were increasingly encroaching on the rights and activities of the individual, the families, the Church and all the "intermediate bodies" under the illusion that a strongly centralized power could right all the wrongs of society by rendereing itself unhindered by laws and principles it had not and could not generate itslef. That included the distortion of the economic processes by way of statism and in many cases of what we would call today "crony capitalism" or "state capitalism". That's what John Paul II taught us to be just another type of, or name for, socialism, since it is just another way to stifle individual rights, violate the rule of the market and kill competition and monopolize the means of production to the detriment of small businesses and families and communities trying to better their conditions not by resorting to the government dole but by industriousness and the exercise of the virtues necessary in a just economic and social system.

Remember, "justice" has a very precise and elaborate meaning in theology and it is rooted in the concept of virtue (it is in fact a virtue of its own right, one of the four cardinal virtues). Only the marxist reductionsim that penetrated our seminaries and universities could give such word a prominently political and economical meaning, and basically turn it into the idea that unless the state controls the economy and "redistributes" the people's money to serve its plans with peranent policies and programs, there is no justice. It is not surprise to me that "Social justice" - in the subversive sense - is often translated in Italian with "social equality" (when translated from non Italian, non Catholic originals). The egalitarianism at its foundation is in fact the same exact premise to totalitarianism it was for the French Revolutionaries and later for Marx and Engels, Lenin, Hitler and the rest of them. That of course regardless of the perceptions of its individual supporter of today.

It is no surprise that the first to hijack this term within Catholic ranks were thinkers who had embraced statism and basically socialism in one form or another. Having failed to see the direct relationship between Liberalism and Socialism, they thought that statism was a good way to counter crony capitalism. both errors depended on a mistaken understanding of the role of government and of course a rejection of the rules of the market that are ultimately moral rules rooted in human nature and the truth of human relationships.

Beside the predictable modernist streams of theology, among the members of this sorry bunch we find the likes of Fr. Coughlin, for instance, who begun to criticize FDR not for his statist excesses, but for being too timid in the pursue of the complete nationalization of the economy. Like FDR, he had come to admire the Italian Fascist policies upon which FDR had modeled much of his initiatives and whose utopian nonsense is evident from the contents of FDR's "four freedoms" that seem taken from an Italian propaganda billboard of the 1930s (or of 1950s China).

I think that the battle of language is one of the fundamental battles of our time (of all times, in fact). The distortion of the meaning of words is the most powerful means the enemy has to inculcate error in the unsuspecting minds of men, it's a tecnique as old as the world: to lure men into error not by presenting it in its ugly reality but by a deceptive use of concepts that are not completely false, only half truths (deprived of the essential half) repackaged with words that sound familiar and appealing, but are in fact smokescreens. Just like in the Book of Genesis.

_________________
Image FabrizioParty like it's 1773!Image

The safest place for me to be is in the center of God's will, and if that is in the line of fire, that's where I'll be-Fr. T. Vakoc


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 May 2011 04:27 
Offline
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2004 07:30
Posts: 10832
Location: Rome, Italy
JMJ
pilgrim wrote:
Rather than a correction I would speak of a return to what the Church always taught Social Justice to be, which is not mere philantrophy and much less socialism. Maybe it seems a correction because we can hardly recall a time when the Bishop of Rome would say something and the rest of the bishops would not say and do something else entirely in this regard. I don't know how many times Paul VI and especially John Paul II lamented and wrote about the lethal disconnect between the stated principles of the Church as regards social justice and the reality of so many dioceses and "Catholic" organizations.

One of the reasons why John Paul II was so hated in certain quarters was precisely his effort against Liberation Theology which brought to light the thological and ideological roots of the "silent apostasy" of so many charities and so-called social justice organizations.

Just read what the Pope said to the participants in the same General Assembly of Caritas Internationalis. Here's hoping that the scandal of certain "social justice" arms of the Church will be finally brought to an end. The firing of the former Caritas director Lesley-Anne Knight and other tangible actions are welcome signals of change from the customary talking with no consequences:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/bened ... as_en.html

Quote:
Caritas Internationalis differs from other social agencies in that it is ecclesial; it shares in the mission of the Church. This is what the Popes have always wanted and this is what your General Assembly is called forcefully to re-affirm. It should be noted that Caritas Internationalis is basically made up of the various national Caritas agencies. In comparison with many Church institutions and associations devoted to charity, Caritas is distinctive; despite the variety of canonical forms taken by the national agencies, all of them offer an outstanding aid to Bishops in their pastoral exercise of charity. This entails a particular ecclesial responsibility: that of letting oneself be guided by the Church’s Pastors. Since Caritas Internationalis has a universal profile and is canonically a public juridical person, the Holy See is also responsible for following its activity and exercising oversight to ensure that its humanitarian and charitable activity, and the content of its documents, are completely in accord with the Apostolic See and the Church’s Magisterium, and that it is administered in a competent and transparent manner. This distinctive identity remains the strength of Caritas Internationalis, and is what makes it uniquely effective.

I would also like to emphasize that your mission enables you to play an important role on the international level. The experience you have garnered in these years has taught you to be advocates within the international community of a sound anthropological vision, one nourished by Catholic teaching and committed to defending the dignity of all human life. Without a transcendent foundation, without a reference to God the Creator, without an appreciation of our eternal destiny, we risk falling prey to harmful ideologies. All that you say and do, the witness of your lives and activities, remains important and contributes to the advancement of the integral good of the human person. Caritas Internationalis is an organization charged with fostering communion between the universal Church and the particular Churches, as well as communion between all the faithful in the exercise of charity; at the same time it is called to help bring the Church’s message to political and social life internationally. In the political sphere - and in all those areas directly affecting the lives of the poor - the faithful, especially the laity, enjoy broad freedom of activity. No one can claim to speak “officially” in the name of the entire lay faithful, or of all Catholics, in matters freely open to discussion (cf. Gaudium et Spes, 43; 88). On the other hand, all Catholics, and indeed all men and women, are called to act with purified consciences and generous hearts in resolutely promoting those values which I have often referred to as “non-negotiable”. Caritas Internationalis, then, is called to work in converting people’s hearts in openness towards all our brothers and sisters, so that everyone, in full respect for his or her freedom and in the full acceptance of his or her personal responsibilities, may always and everywhere act for the common good, generously giving the best of himself or herself in the service of his or her brothers and sisters, particularly those in greatest need.

_________________
Image FabrizioParty like it's 1773!Image

The safest place for me to be is in the center of God's will, and if that is in the line of fire, that's where I'll be-Fr. T. Vakoc


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 May 2011 05:19 
Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member

Joined: 01 Mar 2009 06:51
Posts: 1789
This wikepedia article gives a review of social justice theory. It discusses the Catholic view, the Judaic, Christian, Methodist, Moslem, Hindu etc. There are numerous references, for those interested in devoting a few hundred hours to the subject. Somebody did a good job.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice#Catholicism

Opening paragraph:
Quote:
Social justice generally refers to the idea of creating a society or institution that is based on the principles of equality and solidarity, that understands and values human rights, and that recognizes the dignity of every human being.[1][2] The term and modern concept of "social justice" was coined by the Jesuit Luigi Taparelli in 1840 based on the teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas and given further exposure in 1848 by Antonio Rosmini-Serbati.[1][2][3][4][5] The idea was elaborated by the moral theologian John A. Ryan, who initiated the concept of a living wage. Father Coughlin also used the term in his publications in the 1930s and the 1940s. It is a part of Catholic social teaching, Social Gospel from Episcopalians and is one of the Four Pillars of the Green Party upheld by green parties worldwide. Social justice as a secular concept, distinct from religious teachings, emerged mainly in the late twentieth century, influenced primarily by philosopher John Rawls. Some tenets of social justice have been adopted by those on the left of the political spectrum.

_________________
Norman
...that is the regret of a lot of old people when they look back and realize too late what might have been.
This was what President Martin regretted. He thought he was doing something good. It was a disaster. How can anybody know what is the right thing to do?
-- Theresa


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 May 2011 05:42 
Offline
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2004 07:30
Posts: 10832
Location: Rome, Italy
JMJ

I think the only social justice we as Catholics are interested in is the Catholic version of SJ, which btw is the original and only authentic one. Social justice is not some big modern issue of which the Church crafted her own "baptized" version. It is a Catholic theological subject whose name the world stole, secularized and recycled to candy-coat and serve its purposes (Rawlsian neo-utilitarian and neo-contractualist theories being only the latest version). I recommend avoiding Wikipedia as a source, especially when the information being sought is about the Church and her doctrines.

_________________
Image FabrizioParty like it's 1773!Image

The safest place for me to be is in the center of God's will, and if that is in the line of fire, that's where I'll be-Fr. T. Vakoc


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 May 2011 06:37 
Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2009 15:57
Posts: 2759
pilgrim wrote:
JMJ

I think the only social justice we as Catholics are interested in is the Catholic version of SJ, which btw is the original and only authentic one. Social justice is not some big modern issue of which the Church crafted her own "baptized" version. It is a Catholic theological subject whose name the world stole, secularized and recycled to candy-coat and serve its purposes (Rawlsian neo-utilitarian and neo-contractualist theories being only the latest version). I recommend avoiding Wikipedia as a source, especially when the information being sought is about the Church and her doctrines.


Allow me to point to the statement by the USCCB, http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2011/11-096.shtml, as a politicization of the "Catholic" version of Social Justice. The US has the best immigration law, historical application of that law and fairness of practice in that law in the world. We have at this time people from South of our border who feel they should be exempt from our immigration law and for whatever reasons, I'll not express my thoughts, certain politicians and bishops agree. It is not the charter of the USCCB to attempt to overturn US immigration law. The law is well written and has served us well for many decades, it must be enforced not overturned. The bishops must realize that, just as Church law must be obeyed and not changed to satisfy the immediate desire of a minority, so must National law.

_________________
BobA

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 May 2011 10:32 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 23:35
Posts: 5270
Location: Europe
-------------------

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 May 2011 11:03 
Offline
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2002 11:50
Posts: 18821
Location: USA
Arwen wrote:
-------------------


:roll:

_________________
Bob C


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 May 2011 11:14 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 23:35
Posts: 5270
Location: Europe
Sorry. I wrote something and then decided it was unedifying and off-topic, and then "it" wouldn't let me delete the post, and then I got in a hurry because I knew I probably had only 13 seconds left so that's all I could think of fast. :oops:

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 May 2011 11:22 
Offline
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2002 11:50
Posts: 18821
Location: USA
:roll:

_________________
Bob C


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 May 2011 11:28 
Offline
Proficient Member
Proficient Member
User avatar

Joined: 21 Apr 2008 06:42
Posts: 759
Location: Midwest, USA
bali wrote:

We have at this time people from South of our border who feel they should be exempt from our immigration law and for whatever reasons, I'll not express my thoughts, certain politicians and bishops agree. It is not the charter of the USCCB to attempt to overturn US immigration law. The law is well written and has served us well for many decades, it must be enforced not overturned. The bishops must realize that, just as Church law must be obeyed and not changed to satisfy the immediate desire of a minority, so must National law.


Bob, but if the law tears apart good families trying to survive, permits drug traffic, becomes a tool to drive racism, then we should stand up and change it. As Catholics we need to stand against elitism and racism. The lack of proper enforcement of the law has made these laws antiquated.

_________________
BobB

Fiat voluntas tua


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 May 2011 02:58 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 23:35
Posts: 5270
Location: Europe
BobC wrote:
:roll:

LOL Stop rolling your eyes at me or I'll report you to a moderator. :P

_________________
Grace

As to the past, let us entrust it to God's mercy, the future to Divine Providence. Our task is to live holy the present moment. - Saint Gianna Molla


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 May 2011 09:43 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2002 05:16
Posts: 15696
Location: Southern California, Catholic
Netanyahu has offered Obama a solution for the immigration problem Urges U.S. Return to 1845 Borders

Says if it works, he'll try it for his borders. :P

_________________
- Joe Kelley

Death is only a shadow across the path to Heaven.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 May 2011 10:37 
Offline
Master Member
Master Member
User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2003 13:32
Posts: 4919
More Cowbell wrote:
bali wrote:

We have at this time people from South of our border who feel they should be exempt from our immigration law and for whatever reasons, I'll not express my thoughts, certain politicians and bishops agree. It is not the charter of the USCCB to attempt to overturn US immigration law. The law is well written and has served us well for many decades, it must be enforced not overturned. The bishops must realize that, just as Church law must be obeyed and not changed to satisfy the immediate desire of a minority, so must National law.


Bob, but if the law tears apart good families trying to survive, permits drug traffic, becomes a tool to drive racism, then we should stand up and change it. As Catholics we need to stand against elitism and racism. The lack of proper enforcement of the law has made these laws antiquated.


Two wrongs make a right. so some tell me so. The ends justify the means, we must have family justice and racial justice. So say the progressives.

I disagree with these sentiments. The only thing antiquated is leftist ideology.

_________________
Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 May 2012 07:59 
Offline
Forum Staff
Forum Staff
User avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2004 07:30
Posts: 10832
Location: Rome, Italy
JMJ

UPDATE: it seems we have the first of the long awaited official steps on the way to reform Caritas Internationalis and to restore a Catholic meaning to the concept of "Social Justice" as put in practice by organs that speak and act in the name of the Holy See and under Papal mandate.

The Holy See's Press Office has just released the text of the Decree (only in Italian at the moment of posting) and an explanation of the contents (available in English: clik on the link and scroll down a bit). It contains the directives for the reform of CI's statutes and regulations:

http://press.catholica.va/news_services ... 26&lang=it

In short, Rome gets a more direct control on who gets nominated to what and on the contents of every statement and document issues by Caritas Internationalis. As hoped for by many, Rome gets to approve also the Treasurer of the organization. Hopefully that will hlep prevent the use of money and resources for immoral purposes.

_________________
Image FabrizioParty like it's 1773!Image

The safest place for me to be is in the center of God's will, and if that is in the line of fire, that's where I'll be-Fr. T. Vakoc


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group