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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2013 19:49 
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The Victorian Government plans to force all drink drivers to fit alcohol interlock devices to their cars.

It is already compulsory for drink drivers with high readings and for repeat offenders.

The device forces the driver to pass a breath test before the engine will start.

The State Government wants to extend their use, so all drink drivers will need to use one.

Police Minister, Peter Ryan, says they will be compulsory for anyone caught driving over the limit.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-25/i ... ection=vic

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It is unclear when the new laws will be introduced to parliament.

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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2013 22:42 
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Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
Quote:
The Victorian Government plans to force all drink drivers to fit alcohol interlock devices to their cars.

It is already compulsory for drink drivers with high readings and for repeat offenders.

The device forces the driver to pass a breath test before the engine will start.

The State Government wants to extend their use, so all drink drivers will need to use one.

Police Minister, Peter Ryan, says they will be compulsory for anyone caught driving over the limit.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-25/i ... ection=vic
Quote:
It is unclear when the new laws will be introduced to parliament.

Of course, there's an easy (albeit somewhat unpopular) way to beat these interlock devices. Just don't drink when you know your going to drive! :roll:

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013 12:53 
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At first when I read "drink drivers" I thought you meant people who had be convicted of what we call in the USA "dwi" ("driving while intoxicated"). Then, while reading, I started to wonder if it was an Aussie term meaning a driver who at any time consumes alcohol regardless of how long afterwards it is before they drive. In other words, the "interlock" will be mandated for any driver who cannot prove he is a teetotaler. Or is my imagination chasing after a bunyip?

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013 14:50 
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Kent,

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At first when I read "drink drivers" I thought you meant people who had been convicted of what we call in the USA "dwi" ("driving while intoxicated").


Correct. Here it is known as DUI (driving while under the influence).

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013 15:49 
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James,

We have "driving under the influence" as well. The terms DUI and DWI are used interchangeably sometimes. Sometimes they refer to different levels of intoxication. DUI also may include driving under the influence of drugs. It depends on the state. Basically, you don't want to be caught operating a vehicle while under the influence of drugs or with a blood alcohol level of .08%.

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013 16:06 
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Dean,

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DUI also may include driving under the influence of drugs.


Same here.

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or with a blood alcohol level of .08%.


Here is 0.05%.

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013 16:15 
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Holy cow! .05%. It doesn't take much at all to reach that level. Ours used to be .10%.

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013 16:18 
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Dean,

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It doesn't take much at all to reach that level.


Anything more than two half pints of standard beer in the first hour of drinking and half a pint every hour thereafter will put you there.

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013 17:59 
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Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
Dean,

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It doesn't take much at all to reach that level.


Anything more than two half pints of standard beer in the first hour of drinking and half a pint every hour thereafter will put you there.

Two half pints (16 oz, US) would only be a normal can of beer (12 oz) and a couple of sips from a second one! Wow! That would mean that if I had a couple of Heinekens while working in the garden in the hot, hot sun, then realized I was hungry and there was no food in the house, I'd have to wait a couple of hours before going into town for a sandwich to avoid the risk of a DWI!

And while waiting those two hours, I may as well be productive and do some more weeding.

That, of course, would cause more thirst.

A couple of more beers, then wait a couple of hours! May as well be productive … Boy, I'm getting thirsty …

They'd find me maybe a week later. The autopsy report would show that I either died of starvation, heat stroke, alcohol overdose or all of the above! :roll:

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013 18:43 
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What is the point of having dinner wine at a restaurant or going to a neighborhood tavern to socialize if it becomes a feat of daring to return home? Politicians won't close pubs, cash cows, but they have no problem punishing anyone who dares utilize a pub, love a little hypocrisy.

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2013 19:01 
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retsinab wrote:
Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
Dean,

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It doesn't take much at all to reach that level.


Anything more than two half pints of standard beer in the first hour of drinking and half a pint every hour thereafter will put you there.

Two half pints (16 oz, US) would only be a normal can of beer (12 oz) and a couple of sips from a second one! Wow! That would mean that if I had a couple of Heinekens while working in the garden in the hot, hot sun, then realized I was hungry and there was no food in the house, I'd have to wait a couple of hours before going into town for a sandwich to avoid the risk of a DWI!

And while waiting those two hours, I may as well be productive and do some more weeding.

That, of course, would cause more thirst.

A couple of more beers, then wait a couple of hours! May as well be productive … Boy, I'm getting thirsty …

They'd find me maybe a week later. The autopsy report would show that I either died of starvation, heat stroke, alcohol overdose or all of the above! :roll:


Well, this is when ordering pizza via delivery would be beneficial, assuming you have money and don't need to drive the ATM. But then again you could order online provided you had a credit card.

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013 05:55 
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JMJ

I don;t drink and I know the harm caused by DWI. But I see a few problems here.

1)If the device malfunctions, the car would be effectively stalled. In bad weather, could be a real problem.

2) Where do you set the limits? As a non-drinker, one full can of beer would proably affecdt me much more that some one used to it?
What alcohol level would be set? How reliable are such devices?
3) Could you have someone who had no alcohol to start the car for you and then you just get in?

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013 07:19 
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bali wrote:
What is the point of having dinner wine at a restaurant or going to a neighborhood tavern to socialize if it becomes a feat of daring to return home? Politicians won't close pubs, cash cows, but they have no problem punishing anyone who dares utilize a pub, love a little hypocrisy.

Your "right" to have wine at dinner does not entitle you to put others' lives at risk while driving home. Designate a driver, get a cab, or just wait around and socialize some more while you metabolize.

Really? You're whining about the inconvenience when it saves lives? Sheesh.

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013 07:20 
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mary josephine l wrote:
1)If the device malfunctions, the car would be effectively stalled. In bad weather, could be a real problem.

It's Australia. They don't have bad weather. :)

mary josephine l wrote:
2) Where do you set the limits? As a non-drinker, one full can of beer would proably affecdt me much more that some one used to it? What alcohol level would be set?

Presumably the DUI limit.

mary josephine l wrote:
How reliable are such devices?

Presumably very, but I don't actually know.

mary josephine l wrote:
3) Could you have someone who had no alcohol to start the car for you and then you just get in?

In theory, I think so. No system is perfect, nor should it have to be perfect to be implemented.

I tend to think it is government overreach. I don't like the idea. Too intrusive.

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013 08:11 
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It's too intrusive, IMO, if these are made compulsory for all drivers. But they are being made compulsory for those convicted of DUI, which is not an inconsequential offense. People convicted of DUI have already shown they pose a danger to others. They should be prevented for a time from recklessly turning their automobiles into deadly weapons while they demonstrate that they are better managing their drinking. Not intrusive, IMO. But interlock devices should no longer be compulsory after a time.

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013 08:43 
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Perhaps instead of designated drivers Australia could start a new small, clandestine business called Designated Auto Starters; one in every tavern, pizza joint and restaurant.

The US courts do assign the same devices to arbitrarily selected DUI drivers but the system is far from evenly applied and is only effective for the one specific vehicle on which the device is installed. A repeat DUI offender is likely to have access to more than one vehicle.

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013 08:48 
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Sounds like a new clandestine business in the works; Designated Auto Starters instead of designated drivers! Actually I believe the driver has to blow into the device periodically while driving, it isn't simply a start interlock. I would guess most drivers have access to more than one vehicle so I question the effectiveness of these devices.

Sorry for the double post, I didn't think the original posted.

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013 09:52 
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Mary B wrote:
retsinab wrote:
Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
Dean,

Quote:
It doesn't take much at all to reach that level.


Anything more than two half pints of standard beer in the first hour of drinking and half a pint every hour thereafter will put you there.

Two half pints (16 oz, US) would only be a normal can of beer (12 oz) and a couple of sips from a second one! Wow! That would mean that if I had a couple of Heinekens while working in the garden in the hot, hot sun, then realized I was hungry and there was no food in the house, I'd have to wait a couple of hours before going into town for a sandwich to avoid the risk of a DWI!

And while waiting those two hours, I may as well be productive and do some more weeding.

That, of course, would cause more thirst.

A couple of more beers, then wait a couple of hours! May as well be productive … Boy, I'm getting thirsty …

They'd find me maybe a week later. The autopsy report would show that I either died of starvation, heat stroke, alcohol overdose or all of the above! :roll:


Well, this is when ordering pizza via delivery would be beneficial, assuming you have money and don't need to drive the ATM. But then again you could order online provided you had a credit card.

Mary, if I ordered pizza via delivery from our farm, it would come from the nearest town that offers this service, Maryville, which is 43 miles away. :) I doubt that I could afford that!

And by the time the driver found the place, the afore-mentioned starvation may have already claimed me! :wink:

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013 11:06 
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For chart of how much to reach a given BAC level see California Driver Handbook - (scroll to bottom of page.) Note that the amount depends on ones weight and sex. [I am currently prepping for my license renewal test.]

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013 11:13 
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retsinab wrote:
Mary, if I ordered pizza via delivery from our farm, it would come from the nearest town that offers this service, Maryville, which is 43 miles away. :) I doubt that I could afford that!

And by the time the driver found the place, the afore-mentioned starvation may have already claimed me! :wink:

Besides, who likes cold pizza. :tsk: :hold:

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013 14:47 
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Jeff,

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It's Australia. They don't have bad weather.


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I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of droughts and flooding rains.
I love her far horizons,
I love her jewel-sea,
Her beauty and her terror -
The wide brown land for me!

(Dorothea Mackellar)



http://www.dorotheamackellar.com.au/arc ... ountry.htm

(Any Australian over the age of four can sing that.)

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013 14:50 
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Tasmanian police have been left red-faced by a signage mishap on random breath-testing vans which encourages people to drink drive.

The vans have been emblazoned with the message: "Real mates don't let mates drink drive."

The slogan painted on the sides of vans used throughout the state shortens to "Real mates drink drive" when the sliding doors are open.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-26/r ... ge/4540642

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The Police Department has told officers to remove the slogans by the end of the week.

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2013 14:54 
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LASaxman wrote:
Besides, who likes cold pizza. :tsk: :hold:


On the Saturday morning after, every teenager and college student in America - and me.

(Domino's, double pepperoni, thin crust. Ooo, that's the good stuff; the corners are especially crunchy)

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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2013 19:59 
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retsinab wrote:
Mary B wrote:
retsinab wrote:
Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
Dean,

Quote:
It doesn't take much at all to reach that level.


Anything more than two half pints of standard beer in the first hour of drinking and half a pint every hour thereafter will put you there.

Two half pints (16 oz, US) would only be a normal can of beer (12 oz) and a couple of sips from a second one! Wow! That would mean that if I had a couple of Heinekens while working in the garden in the hot, hot sun, then realized I was hungry and there was no food in the house, I'd have to wait a couple of hours before going into town for a sandwich to avoid the risk of a DWI!

And while waiting those two hours, I may as well be productive and do some more weeding.

That, of course, would cause more thirst.

A couple of more beers, then wait a couple of hours! May as well be productive … Boy, I'm getting thirsty …

They'd find me maybe a week later. The autopsy report would show that I either died of starvation, heat stroke, alcohol overdose or all of the above! :roll:


Well, this is when ordering pizza via delivery would be beneficial, assuming you have money and don't need to drive the ATM. But then again you could order online provided you had a credit card.

Mary, if I ordered pizza via delivery from our farm, it would come from the nearest town that offers this service, Maryville, which is 43 miles away. :) I doubt that I could afford that!

And by the time the driver found the place, the afore-mentioned starvation may have already claimed me! :wink:


Better stock up like the Doomsday Preppers. You can see I am a city girl and we have at least 3 pizza places all within 2 miles or less from our house! One is actually in walking distance just down the street from where my daughter use to walk to grade school and close to the place she currently works (and has walked to work).

About drunk driving, in Ohio we don't have the interlock device, but drivers can get yellow license plates that are like the scarlet letter of drunk drivers. When you see the plate you know the person driving has had a DUI, it allows them to drive but makes everyone aware. I don't know if the police watch them more carefully if they see the yellow plate.

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2013 19:07 
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Joe,

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For chart of how much to reach a given BAC level see California Driver Handbook - (scroll to bottom of page.) Note that the amount depends on ones weight and sex. [I am currently prepping for my license renewal test.]



Also, whether or not you are a fast or slow metabolizer of alcohol which depends upon liver enzymes. Asian tend to have more difficulty holding their liquors then some other ethnic groups.

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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2013 19:08 
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Progressive effects of alcohol

BAC (% by vol.) Behavior Impairment

0.010–0.029 Average individual appears normal
Subtle effects that can be detected with special tests

0.030–0.059 Mild euphoria
Relaxation
Joyousness
Talkativeness
Decreased inhibition
Concentration

0.06–0.09 Blunted feelings
Disinhibition
Extroversion
Reasoning
Depth perception
Peripheral vision
Glare recovery

0.10–0.19 Over-expression
Emotional swings
Anger or sadness
Boisterousness
Decreased libido
Reflexes
Reaction time
Gross motor control
Staggering
Slurred speech
Temporary erectile dysfunction
Possibility of temporary alcohol poisoning

0.20–0.29 Stupor
Loss of understanding
Impaired sensations
Possibility of falling unconscious
Severe motor impairment
Loss of consciousness
Memory blackout

0.30–0.39 Severe central nervous system depression
Unconsciousness
Death is possible
Bladder function
Breathing
Dysequilibrium
Heart rate

0.40–0.50 General lack of behavior
Unconsciousness
Breathing
Heart rate
Positional Alcohol Nystagmus

>0.50 High risk of poisoning
Possibility of death



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content

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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2013 21:13 
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What BAC is necessary to commit the sin of drunkenness?

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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2013 18:22 
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David,

From the Angelic Doctor

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Article 1. Whether drunkenness is a sin?

Objection 1. It would seem that drunkenness is not a sin. For every sin has a corresponding contrary sin, thus timidity is opposed to daring, and presumption to pusillanimity. But no sin is opposed to drunkenness. Therefore drunkenness is not a sin.

Objection 2. Further, every sin is voluntary [Augustine, De Vera Relig. xiv]. But no man wishes to be drunk, since no man wishes to be deprived of the use of reason. Therefore drunkenness is not a sin.

Objection 3. Further, whoever causes another to sin, sins himself. Therefore, if drunkenness were a sin, it would follow that it is a sin to ask a man to drink that which makes him drunk, which would seem very hard.

Objection 4. Further, every sin calls for correction. But correction is not applied to drunkards: for Gregory [Cf. Canon Denique, dist. 4 where Gratian refers to a letter of St. Gregory to St. Augustine of Canterbury] says that "we must forbear with their ways, lest they become worse if they be compelled to give up the habit." Therefore drunkenness is not a sin.

On the contrary, The Apostle says (Romans 13:13): "Not in rioting and drunkenness."

I answer that, Drunkenness may be understood in two ways. First, it may signify the defect itself of a man resulting from his drinking much wine, the consequence being that he loses the use of reason. On this sense drunkenness denotes not a sin, but a penal defect resulting from a fault. Secondly, drunkenness may denote the act by which a man incurs this defect. This act may cause drunkenness in two ways. On one way, through the wine being too strong, without the drinker being cognizant of this: and in this way too, drunkenness may occur without sin, especially if it is not through his negligence, and thus we believe that Noah was made drunk as related in Genesis 9. On another way drunkenness may result from inordinate concupiscence and use of wine: in this way it is accounted a sin, and is comprised under gluttony as a species under its genus. For gluttony is divided into "surfeiting [Douay:,'rioting'] and drunkenness," which are forbidden by the Apostle (Romans 13:13).

Reply to Objection 1. As the Philosopher says (Ethic. iii, 11), insensibility which is opposed to temperance "is not very common," so that like its species which are opposed to the species of intemperance it has no name. Hence the vice opposed to drunkenness is unnamed; and yet if a man were knowingly to abstain from wine to the extent of molesting nature grievously, he would not be free from sin.

Reply to Objection 2. This objection regards the resulting defect which is involuntary: whereas immoderate use of wine is voluntary, and it is in this that the sin consists.

Reply to Objection 3. Even as he that is drunk is excused if he knows not the strength of the wine, so too is he that invites another to drink excused from sin, if he be unaware that the drinker is the kind of person to be made drunk by the drink offered. But if ignorance be lacking neither is excused from sin.

Reply to Objection 4. Sometimes the correction of a sinner is to be foregone, as stated above (Question 33, Article 6). Hence Augustine says in a letter (Ad Aurel. Episc. Ep. xxii), "Meseems, such things are cured not by bitterness, severity, harshness, but by teaching rather than commanding, by advice rather than threats. Such is the course to be followed with the majority of sinners: few are they whose sins should be treated with severity."


Article 2. Whether drunkenness is a mortal sin?

Objection 1. It would seem that drunkenness is not a mortal sin. For Augustine says in a sermon on Purgatory [Serm. civ in the Appendix to St. Augustine's works] that "drunkenness if indulged in assiduously, is a mortal sin." Now assiduity denotes a circumstance which does not change the species of a sin; so that it cannot aggravate a sin infinitely, and make a mortal sin of a venial sin, as shown above (I-II, 88, 5). Therefore if drunkenness is not a mortal sin for some other reason, neither is it for this.

Objection 2. Further, Augustine says [Serm. civ in the Appendix to St. Augustine's works]: "Whenever a man takes more meat and drink than is necessary, he should know that this is one of the lesser sins." Now the lesser sins are called venial. Therefore drunkenness, which is caused by immoderate drink, is a venial sin.

Objection 3. Further, no mortal sin should be committed on the score of medicine. Now some drink too much at the advice of the physician, that they may be purged by vomiting; and from this excessive drink drunkenness ensues. Therefore drunkenness is not a mortal sin.

On the contrary, We read in the Canons of the Apostles (Can. xli, xlii): "A bishop, priest or deacon who is given to drunkenness or gambling, or incites others thereto, must either cease or be deposed; a subdeacon, reader or precentor who does these things must either give them up or be excommunicated; the same applies to the laity." Now such punishments are not inflicted save for mortal sins. Therefore drunkenness is a mortal sin.

I answer that, The sin of drunkenness, as stated in the foregoing Article, consists in the immoderate use and concupiscence of wine. Now this may happen to a man in three ways. First, so that he knows not the drink to be immoderate and intoxicating: and then drunkenness may be without sin, as stated above (Article 1). Secondly, so that he perceives the drink to be immoderate, but without knowing it to be intoxicating, and then drunkenness may involve a venial sin. Thirdly, it may happen that a man is well aware that the drink is immoderate and intoxicating, and yet he would rather be drunk than abstain from drink. Such a man is a drunkard properly speaking, because morals take their species not from things that occur accidentally and beside the intention, but from that which is directly intended. On this way drunkenness is a mortal sin, because then a man willingly and knowingly deprives himself of the use of reason, whereby he performs virtuous deeds and avoids sin, and thus he sins mortally by running the risk of falling into sin. For Ambrose says (De Patriarch. [De Abraham i.]): "We learn that we should shun drunkenness, which prevents us from avoiding grievous sins. For the things we avoid when sober, we unknowingly commit through drunkenness." Therefore drunkenness, properly speaking, is a mortal sin.

Reply to Objection 1. Assiduity makes drunkenness a mortal sin, not on account of the mere repetition of the act, but because it is impossible for a man to become drunk assiduously, without exposing himself to drunkenness knowingly and willingly, since he has many times experienced the strength of wine and his own liability to drunkenness.

Reply to Objection 2. To take more meat or drink than is necessary belongs to the vice of gluttony, which is not always a mortal sin: but knowingly to take too much drink to the point of being drunk, is a mortal sin. Hence Augustine says (Confess. x, 31): "Drunkenness is far from me: Thou wilt have mercy, that it come not near me. But full feeding sometimes hath crept upon Thy servant."

Reply to Objection 3. As stated above (Question 141, Article 6), meat and drink should be moderate in accordance with the demands of the body's health. Wherefore, just as it happens sometimes that the meat and drink which are moderate for a healthy man are immoderate for a sick man, so too it may happen conversely, that what is excessive for a healthy man is moderate for one that is ailing. On this way when a man eats or drinks much at the physician's advice in order to provoke vomiting, he is not to be deemed to have taken excessive meat or drink. There is, however, no need for intoxicating drink in order to procure vomiting, since this is caused by drinking lukewarm water: wherefore this is no sufficient cause for excusing a man from drunkenness.


Article 3. Whether drunkenness is the gravest of sins?

Objection 1. It would seem that drunkenness is the gravest of sins. For Chrysostom says (Hom. lviii in Matth.) that "nothing gains the devil's favor so much as drunkenness and lust, the mother of all the vices." And it is written in the Decretals (Dist. xxxv, can. Ante omnia): "Drunkenness, more than anything else, is to be avoided by the clergy, for it foments and fosters all the vices."

Objection 2. Further, from the very fact that a thing excludes the good of reason, it is a sin. Now this is especially the effect of drunkenness. Therefore drunkenness is the greatest of sins.

Objection 3. Further, the gravity of a sin is shown by the gravity of its punishment. Now seemingly drunkenness is punished most severely; for Ambrose says [De Elia et de Jejunio v] that "there would be no slavery, were there no drunkards." Therefore drunkenness is the greatest of sins.

On the contrary, According to Gregory (Moral. xxxiii, 12), spiritual vices are greater than carnal vices. Now drunkenness is one of the carnal vices. Therefore it is not the greatest of sins.

I answer that, A thing is said to be evil because it removes a good. Wherefore the greater the good removed by an evil, the graver the evil. Now it is evident that a Divine good is greater than a human good. Wherefore the sins that are directly against God are graver than the sin of drunkenness, which is directly opposed to the good of human reason.

Reply to Objection 1. Man is most prone to sins of intemperance, because such like concupiscences and pleasures are connatural to us, and for this reason these sins are said to find greatest favor with the devil, not for being graver than other sins, but because they occur more frequently among men.

Reply to Objection 2. The good of reason is hindered in two ways: in one way by that which is contrary to reason, in another by that which takes away the use of reason. Now that which is contrary to reason has more the character of an evil, than that which takes away the use of reason for a time, since the use of reason, which is taken away by drunkenness, may be either good or evil, whereas the goods of virtue, which are taken away by things that are contrary to reason, are always good.

Reply to Objection 3. Drunkenness was the occasional cause of slavery, in so far as Cham brought the curse of slavery on to his descendants, for having laughed at his father when the latter was made drunk. But slavery was not the direct punishment of drunkenness.

Article 4. Whether drunkenness excuses from sin?
Objection 1. It would seem that drunkenness does not excuse from sin. For the Philosopher says (Ethic. iii, 5) that "the drunkard deserves double punishment." Therefore drunkenness aggravates a sin instead of excusing from it.

Objection 2. Further, one sin does not excuse another, but increases it. Now drunkenness is a sin. Therefore it is not an excuse for sin.

Objection 3. Further, the Philosopher says (Ethic. vii, 3) that just as man's reason is tied by drunkenness, so is it by concupiscence. But concupiscence is not an excuse for sin: neither therefore is drunkenness.

On the contrary, According to Augustine (Contra Faust. xxii, 43), Lot was to be excused from incest on account of drunkenness.

I answer that, Two things are to be observed in drunkenness, as stated above (Article 1), namely the resulting defect and the preceding act. on the part of the resulting defect whereby the use of reason is fettered, drunkenness may be an excuse for sin, in so far as it causes an act to be involuntary through ignorance. But on the part of the preceding act, a distinction would seem necessary; because, if the drunkenness that results from that act be without sin, the subsequent sin is entirely excused from fault, as perhaps in the case of Lot. If, however, the preceding act was sinful, the person is not altogether excused from the subsequent sin, because the latter is rendered voluntary through the voluntariness of the preceding act, inasmuch as it was through doing something unlawful that he fell into the subsequent sin. Nevertheless, the resulting sin is diminished, even as the character of voluntariness is diminished. Wherefore Augustine says (Contra Faust. xxii, 44) that "Lot's guilt is to be measured, not by the incest, but by his drunkenness."

Reply to Objection 1. The Philosopher does not say that the drunkard deserves more severe punishment, but that he deserves double punishment for his twofold sin. Or we may reply that he is speaking in view of the law of a certain Pittacus, who, as stated in Polit. ii, 9, ordered "those guilty of assault while drunk to be more severely punished than if they had been sober, because they do wrong in more ways than one." On this, as Aristotle observes (Polit. ii, 9), "he seems to have considered the advantage," namely of the prevention of wrong, "rather than the leniency which one should have for drunkards," seeing that they are not in possession of their faculties.

Reply to Objection 2. Drunkenness may be an excuse for sin, not in the point of its being itself a sin, but in the point of the defect that results from it, as stated above.

Reply to Objection 3. Concupiscence does not altogether fetter the reason, as drunkenness does, unless perchance it be so vehement as to make a man insane. Yet the passion of concupiscence diminishes sin, because it is less grievous to sin through weakness than through malice.



http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3150.htm

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)


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