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I understand Third Orders in a textbook sense. I have read about them, know how they fit in the structure of the church and I know the technicalities of what they and their members are. I do not understand the practical side of things. A book can tell you what a lion is, but only a human can tell you what seeing one is really like! I was hoping some people here may be able to help me understand the human side of Third Orders, rather than the purely encyclopaedic side.

The first point I am unsure about is how people are drawn to them in the first place. Is is a sort of calling, or is it more of a choice or aspiration? Those who become clergy or religious have a calling of some sort (I can only imagine how that must feel), but I am unclear on whether members of a Third Order are the same.

From my understanding, there are regular and secular members of a Third Order. A secular member fits my expectations and understanding, but I find regulars hard to picture. From my understanding, it is a member of a third order who lives in a convent or monastery. Obviously, a regular has not taken the vows, but do they essentially live the same as a nun/monk, or do they only live there but work a job out in the secular community? If they do live the same, why would someone be a regular member of a Third Order rather than taking the half-step more?

Finally, it is obvious that not all Third Orders could have a presence in every corner of the Earth. Does any Order that has a convent and/or monastery in an area have the potential for members of a Third Order, or is there separate/additional administration required that may not be present? For example, the Poor Clares have a monastery in my area and there are members of the Franciscan Third Order around here. There is no Carmelite convent here, so would that mean there could be no Carmelite tertiaries? If, hypothetically, there were a Benedictine monastery here, would that automatically mean we could have Benedictine tertiaries?

I was also hoping people here could perhaps share their own experiences a little. A textbook does not tell specifics of what members of a Third Order do, only the general areas. I was wondering what kinds of activities/practices members here were involved in. I would assume the specifics are different between different orders (eg Franciscans would probably have different practices from Dominicans), so it would probably help a lot if members of a few different Third Orders could help me understand.

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Matthew Percival
Sacristan, Sacred Heart Cathedral Bendigo

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Pax et Bonum


Schultzz

I can only add to what Schultz said.

My parish is staffed by Third Order Regular Franciscan priests. They have all taught at the Franciscan University at one time o another. They live in community here at the Parish, occasionally we have in residence a Brother or two, who may or may not be in training for the Priesthood.

Also my Parish has a Chapter of the third Order Secular who are lay persons from our parish and neighboring parishes who wish to more closely follow the Teachings of St Francis, they meet on some regular schedule.

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Bob C

Thank you Bob.

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Pax et Bonum


Schultzz

A few small clarifications:

The new OFS designation is Latin: Ordo Franciscanus Saecularis. It was adopted so that every "third order" Franciscan in the world would have the same "call" letters, if you will.

The original name of the "third order" was the Order of Pentinents.


The Third Order Regular was a split of the Third Order (sort of). These were "OFS" men who lived in community, eventually evolving into a religious order.

Finally, there are secular priests/religious (secular in the sense that they are not religious or priests that belong to a third order), that are OFS. So your local parish priest could be Father Joe Smith, OFS.

NB: a member of another religious family (Dominican, Carmelite, Augustinian, Jesuit, etc), whether priest, religious or lay can not be a member of the OFS.

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-Lou (Louis)

ORA et LABORA
Totus Tuus
Cacciatore/Fungaiolo

I'm an Oblate of St. Benedict. Like Schultzz said, we don't make vows but make promises to live a certain type of life. In addition, an Oblate of St. Benedict makes that commitment in the context of a lifetime commitment to the particular monastic community the Oblate is received in. We have conferences at the Monastery once a month, meet with local oblate communities once a month (those meetings can differ, in mine we have a monk come and give a teaching and then celebration of Mass) and are to make a retreat at least once a year if able to.

There is a period of inquiry that is supposed to last at least six months. During that time, the person hopefully can meet with a monk for spiritual direction but may have to meet with a lay person (the monks all have a heavy load of directees) to guide them about the way of life. The person is the received as a novice and receives both a St. Benedict medal and the rule of St. Benedict. There are several books that are required to be read but I didn't really have that requirement because I'd been going to the monastery for both personal and formal retreats for several years and had been in spiritual direction with a monk for around five years and my spiritual director and the Oblate director knew that I was already well prepared. In fact the director of Oblates (who is a monk) told me I could skip the novice period and make my promises as a full Oblate but I felt I needed the extra time. An Oblate can be a non-Catholic though must be a Christian. Catholic Oblates are received at an ordinary daily Mass and may be alone or with a group (I was the only one when I made my promises) and Protestant Oblate are received at one of the hours (referring to the Liturgy of the Hours), it may be that the hour has to be Vespers but I'm not sure about that one.

Just as religious orders have different charisms, so to do the third order members. For me, I've committed to live the spirituality of the Benedictines which means praying as many of the hours as I can, living as simple a life in the world as I can, practicing Lectio Divina and living by the Rule of St. Benedict as my state of life permits.

I did feel called to joining a third order. I inquired into the Carmelites and the Franciscans but was always more drawn to the Benedictines. I'm attached to a monastery out in the desert an hours drive from my home. I first visited that monastery when I was in my late teens as they had a well known festival for fifty years. I loved it there and it was always the place that I was most attracted to. I do believe the call was the Holy Spirit working within me and I feel very blessed to have this community in my life. I always wanted to be a part of the community as there was a long time when I didn't have a church community and my family is not Catholic.

All the promises the oblate makes are understood to be qualified by the term "as much as one's state of life permits". A person may live too far from the monastery to make regular visits but can still be an Oblate. We also make a promise to support the monastery whether as a volunteer, a donor or simply one who remembers the monastery in their prayers daily.

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Valerie Garcia
vals1990@yahoo.com

"Listen, O my son, to the precepts of thy master, and incline the ear of thy heart, and cheerfully receive and faithfully execute the admonitions of thy loving Father, that by the toil of obedience thou mayest return to Him ....." St. Benedict

I'm not a Third Order Dominican (technically) but: http://www.3op.org/

Interestingly, there was originally not much difference between the 3rd Order Secular and the Archconfraternity of the Rosary, and Confraternity members are mentioned in the martyrology. Third Order Secular Dominicans include:
St. Catherine of Siena
St. Louis de Montfort
St. Philip Neri
Bl. Pier Giorgio Frassati
and tons of other saints and blesseds, including a huge number of martyrs.

Basically, the question to ask is "Do I identify strongly with the spirituality of a particular Order?"

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Jules Xx


What will become of sinners?

"I'm an Oblate of St. Benedict." - Val

Thanks for taking the time to explain Val.

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Pax et Bonum


Schultzz

Thanks you, all, for sharing your stories. It has helped me to better understand several areas I was very unclear about. I had often seen the acronym `OFS' and was a little confused around how it fitted in. I had been confused about past Popes who I had read were Franciscan tertiaries, which I had thought automatically meant `laity', but how these Priests/Bishops/Popes had been connected now makes perfect sense. It also explains stories I had heard about two of the past Bishops of our Diocese, as they must have also been members of a Third Order (I could not quite put together how they were priests and associated with these monastic traditions).



I believe St Augustine said something like that too. It is perhaps true for all people in all forms of life. It is better to reach for the best you can than to aspire to an unreachable standard and become disillusioned. It is very easy for us all to say that we walk in the footsteps of Jesus, but can any of us claim to reach that standard? Personally, I believe the Saints show us examples of people who have walked as closely to Jesus as possible and present role models for us to aspire towards. We may not be able to manage to meet that standard, but we can try to meet as much as our situations in life allow.



That is probably the best possible answer to give anyone who asks, and it seems to ring very true in the stories Schultzz and Valerie shared.

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Matthew Percival
Sacristan, Sacred Heart Cathedral Bendigo

What I am writing here is based on my knowledge of the Carmelite order.
Becoming a Secular Carmelite is a calling just like being a nun or a priest is a calling. A person feels the inclination towards the spirituality of the order they want to join.
The calling is felt by the person, but it also has to be confirmed by the group one is joining.

The practical side of becoming a Third Order is to fulfill certain promises (chastity and obedience for example). A Secular Carmelite has to perform certain prayers and meditations everyday. They also have to go to a group meeting once a month where they learn about the writings of the Carmelite saints (among other things).
There are steps to the process where one first goes through a trial period, then takes temporary promises and lastly takes final promises. Some might go beyond this and take vows (stronger than a promise) but it is not required.

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In Christ
Kim, M



"....abstinence and chastity, dispose man very much to the perfection of intellectual operation.” St Thomas Aquinas

Oooh, yes...

We should clarify, here, that the promises of 'chastity' imply 'chastity in accordance with one's state in life.' So that promise, for a married person, would imply fidelity to his/her spouse.

In literal terms, the promises made would vary from group to group (even 'regular' Dominicans - i.e. friars and nuns - only make one vow, that of obedience, because the rest is covered by that one). However, all the third orders and oblate groups aim to help people live out the evangelical counsels through their everyday life.

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Jules Xx


What will become of sinners?

Matthew,

1. The first point I am unsure about is how people are drawn to them in the first place. Is is a sort of calling, or is it more of a choice or aspiration?

In San Francisco in the 1980's, Third Order Seculars were called SFOs (not related to the airport.) One summer I went to the city fair and came upon a booth manned by SFOs. They were helping city authorities find housing for the homeless. They invited me to join them but I hesitated. Later, I visited St. Boniface Church, a downtown church staffed by the Order of Friars Minor (OFM). I saw a statue of St. Francis there and prayed, "If you want me to join your Third Order, you'd have to give me a clearer sign. Not long after that, I met a nice man who was an SFO. I married him and he took me home to his house near St. Anthony's Church, also staffed by OFMs. We were both active in the parish and all our friends were SFOs. What could be a clearer sign?

2. From my understanding, there are regular and secular members of a Third Order.

You are quite right. Third Order Regulars are religious, meaning they have a Rule to live in community. Third Order Seculars are mostly lay people with a few Diocesan priests in our ranks. The late Pope Paul VI was an SFO, so was St. John Vianney. The Franciscan Third Order Secular was the original Order that St. Francis founded, before the men started living in community to form the First Order (OFM, OFM Cap, OFM Conv). There are many historical figures among the Seculars, some were even royalty: St. Louis IX King of France, St. Elizabeth Queen of Hungary, St. Thomas More, Christopher Columbus, Franz Liszt, Michaelangelo, among others.

I don't know much about Third Order Regulars, but many of them have formed into numerous other branches of the Franciscan family. Out here, for example, there's the OSF (An Order of non-habit-wearing Sisters who live in apartment houses, who are into social justice, saving the rainforest, anti-gun lobby, pro-labor unions, women's ordination, and liberation theology in Latin America. They work in chanceries, parish offices, and church charities and dedicated to inflicting pains in conservatives' and traditionalists' behinds.

A long time ago, the OSFs, too, wore habits. St. John Neumann, the first Bishop of Philadelphia, founded an Order of teaching Sisters of St. Francis in his diocese. The new U.S. Saint, St. Marianne Cope, was a Third Order Regular who worked with St. Father Damien tending to lepers in Molokai. I think the difference between a TOR nun and a Poor Clare nun is that the TOR is active while the Poor Clare is contemplative. Also Poor Clares are Second Order and live in monasteries (like Mother Angelica and her Sisters.)

3. If they do live the same, why would someone be a regular member of a Third Order rather than taking the half-step more?

I don't think TORs consider OFMs a "half-step more." I think it's a difference in charism. TORs are an active branch. OFM Caps (like Padre Pio, Father Solano) are contemplative and they live in monasteries. OFM Conv (like St. Maximilian Kolbe) are more like missionaries. OFMs (neither Caps nor Convs) are a combination contemplative/active branch.

4. It is obvious that not all Third Orders could have a presence in every corner of the Earth. Does any Order that has a convent and/or monastery in an area have the potential for members of a Third Order, or is there separate/additional administration required that may not be present?

Yes, that's how it usually goes. Third Order Secular Franciscan fraternities are usually attached to a community of the First, Second, or Third Order Regular because their Spiritual Assistants must come from those communities. Third Order seculars also have nation-wide and international organizations with officers, etc., and they hold congresses and print newsletters and network among themselves. No one knows exactly how many Franciscan Third Order Seculars in the world.

5. I was wondering what kinds of activities/practices members here were involved in.

After Vatican II, Pope Paul VI rewrote the Rule of the Secular Franciscan Order and just like the changes brought about by Vatican II (I didn't say "Spirit of Vatican II," did I?), there were many interpretations on how best to put it into practice. All agreed that the #1 duty of members is to attend a monthly meeting where they pray the Liturgy of the Hours (usually Sunday vespers) in community. World-wide leaders also agreed forming four working commissions, just to add to the fun, travels, and parties: Family, Work, Environment, and Peace & Justice commissions.

The best places are for those in NGOs who sit at United Nations conferences, etc., presumably lending their expertise on these pressing social issues. But our St. Anthony Fraternity was small, so all work was done in small scale: Serving at the soup kitchen, tending the friary's flower garden, setting up toilet facilities for illegal migrant laborers, marching in anti-war or anti-nuclear demonstrations, marching in the West Coast Walk for Life. There's also a committee in charge of formation (teaching basic catechism to candates. I was in that committee, so I didn't have to work in the social justice commissions.

Five years ago, my husband and I moved northeast of SF to an area where there are more Dominican houses than Franciscans, therefore all our friends here are Third Order of the Preachers (I think that's what they're called - TOP). My husband was very sick and later died. The closest SFO fraternity to me is in Napa Valley, but since I don't drive, I couldn't attend the monthly meetings. So now all the connection I have with SFO is my Liturgy of the Hours.

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Pax et bonum,
Marie

JMJ

Okay, my dear Brother Luigi, just to clarify those initials:

OFM = Order of Friar Minors
OFM Cap = Order of Friar Minors Capuchin
OFM Conv = Order of Friar Minors Conventual
PC = Poor Clares
PCC = Poor Clares Colettine
PCPA = Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration
TOR = Third Order Regular
OSF = Order of St. Francis (a branch of TOR)
OFS = (the new, awesome and improved initials for Third Order Seculars, replacing SFO)--
Ordo Franciscanus Saecularis
Love it!

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Pax et bonum,
Marie

JMJ

Oh Marie, why stop at just a few abbreviations?

Abbreviations used by Catholic Rligious Organizations

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Bob C

Dominicans is easy:

Technically, the Holy Order of Brothers Preachers... from which 'Brothers' got eliminated leaving "SOP", now usually "OP" which works in Latin too.

Friars, First Order, OP
Nuns (cloistered), Second Order, OP
Sisters, Third Order Regular, OP
Secular Third Order ("Dominican Laity" "Tertiaries"), TOP

There are no 'splinter groups' because arguing is just normal for the Dominicans.

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Jules Xx


What will become of sinners?