Catholic Online Forum

Tens of thousands of people have protested in France against plans to legalise same-sex marriage and allow gay couples to adopt.

Police said at least 70,000 took to the streets in Paris; there were other demonstrations in the cities of Lyon, Toulouse and Marseille.

They included Catholic groups and other backers of traditional family rights.

The issue is one of the most divisive Mr Hollande has faced, correspondents say. The head of the French Council of Catholic Bishops, Cardinal Andre Vingt-Trois, recently described gay marriage as "the ultimate deceit".

At present only married couples - not civil union partners - can adopt in France.

Parts of central Paris have been brought to a standstill as hundreds of thousands of people demonstrated against gay marriage and adoption.

Three columns of protesters, waving pink and blue flags showing a father, mother and two children, converged on Eiffel Tower from different meeting points in Paris.

Many came after long train and bus rides from the provinces.

Organisers insist they are not against gays and lesbians but for the rights of children to have a father and mother.

Slogans on the posters and banners approved by the organisers included "marriagophile, not homophobe," "all born of a father and mother" and "paternity, maternity, equality".

Organisers claimed a million people had protested, while police put the number at 340,000 - high even in protest-prone France.

Can single people adopt?

It seems that the government has no intention of listening to the people or holding a referendum.

Despite the massive turn-out in Paris on Sunday - 800,000 according to organisers, 340,000 according to police - a statement from president Francois Hollande's Elysee Palace after the rally made it clear he would press ahead with the reforms.

The government plans to put the proposed legislation to parliament on January 29.

"This is a bill that strictly takes nothing away from anyone, which does not do away with the words father and mother...," justice minister Christiane Taubira told French television channel TF1.

Once again, she ruled out a referendum on the issue which she argued would in any case be unconstitutional.

Such is the brave new world. It takes a village (big government) to raise a child. Families are no longer necessary; guardians simply serve administrative and basic legal functions.

Dear President Obama and President Hollande,

Antiwar activists say sometimes, “not in my name.” It means, “don’t send soldiers to fight overseas and then say you’re doing it for me as an American or because I am a French citizen.” Whether it is Iraq or Mali, the idea is that governments cannot deflect questions about the ethical impact of their decision to go to war, by claiming the someone else's needs demanded such a decision, especially if that "someone else" didn't ask for, and doesn't approve of, the war.

Today I say “not in my name” on a different front. I am queer and do not deny my membership in the LGBT community. I was raised by a lesbian whom I loved, and her female partner, to whom I was actually closer for much of my childhood and adolescence than to my own mother. I loved them both tremendously.

But please, President Hollande of France and President Obama of the United States, do not promote adoption for same-sex couples in my name. Do not do it to say that you wish to make children of same-sex couples feel better. Do not do it because we need to be protected from homophobia directed at our parents. If you really care about us, you should promote policies that urge a child’s mother and father to stay together, even if one half of that marriage is gay.

If you really care about us, you will tell our parents to put us before their sexual crusades, their carnal pleasures, or their irritations with the opposite sex.

If you really care about us, you will tell the gay community to stop using us. You will protect us from their agendas, their three-ring circuses, and their propaganda, too often starring us.

Was that meant to be an answer to my question?

Yes, unless you are not interested in WHY adoption has been transformed from a basis in natural law and what is best for the child to a basis in leftist ideology and what is politically derived.

...which I believe James already provided.

Tens of thousands of people have packed the streets of Paris to call for the legalisation of gay marriage, two days before a parliamentary debate on the hugely divisive issue.

Waving rainbow flags and carrying banners reading "For equality now, against discrimination always", the demonstrators rallied to promote their cause exactly two weeks after hundreds of thousands descended on the French capital to protest against government plans to legalise gay marriage and adoption.

(My emphases - JD)

Police estimated that about 125,000 people had turned out for Sunday's rally, while organisers put the figure at 400,000.

But it is the scale of the "manif pour tous", against gay marriage and adoption, that took many outside observers by surprise.

Normally it is the political left in France that puts on these mass shows of support.

But this was unmistakeably a conservative protest, backed - in the main - by right-wing parties and the principal religions.

So what does it show?

The existence of a silent French majority, slow to act but formidable when aroused?

The latent powers of the Catholic Church to mobilise the faithful when an issue is sufficiently grave?

Provincial hostility to a metropolitan elite that dominates debate and puts an ever smoother liberal spin on issues of right and wrong?

Yes, a bit, to all of the above. But there are a couple of other factors too.

My question was a simple one, requiring only a yes or no answer, which I believe James already provided.

Your approval never has been nor will ever be a requirement.

That's a relief.

I might add that I am quite biased and opinionated.

The French National Assembly has begun a marathon debate on legalising same-sex marriage after months of public protests and counter-protests.

The bill, promised by President Francois Hollande during his election campaign last year, allows for same-sex marriage and adoption by gay parents.

At the start of the debate, Justice Minister Christiane Taubira said the introduction of gay marriage was "an act of equality".

Prime Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault has said he expects the debate to harden on the right, and accepts that some Socialist deputies may abstain from voting.

Ahead of the debate, protesters hung banners from dozens of Parisian bridges with slogans such as "A father and a mother, it's simple" and "All born of a mother and father".

"Ours is a movement for freedom of expression, for the freedom of conscience," the movement's figurehead, Frigide Barjot, told France's AFP news agency, calling for a free vote on the bill.

France's National Assembly has overwhelmingly approved the first and most important article of a controversial law that will allow gay couples to get married and adopt children.

Deputies voted 249-97 in favour of article one of the draft legislation, which redefines marriage as being an agreement between two people rather than necessarily between a man and a woman.

Well, if we were in any doubt, this proves our ruling class in Europe doesn't give a hoot about the people.

Opinion polls suggest that around 55-60% of French people support gay marriage, though only about 50% approve of gay adoption.

France's National Assembly has approved a law allowing same-sex couples to marry and adopt children.

After days of intense debate, the bill was passed by 329 votes to 229. It must now win final approval in the Senate.

Hundreds of thousands of people have taken part in a final protest in Paris against a bill to legalise same-sex marriage and adoption.

There were scuffles and police fired tear gas as the protest spilled over onto the Champs Elysees, the avenue which runs past the president's palace.

Interior Minister Manuel Valls said there had been dozens of arrests.

France's Senate is due to debate the bill next month after it was passed by the lower house of parliament.

Police had banned the protesters from the Champs Elysees, but groups of them broke through to the avenue.

Officers used batons and tear gas to try to dislodge several hundred people who gathered there as the main demonstration ended.

Mr Valls said the remaining protesters were mostly from far-right groups.

However, the head of the centre-right opposition UMP party, Jean-François Cope, said some families on the protest had been caught up in the tear gas.

France's Senate upper house has voted in favour of same-sex marriage, paving the way for it to enter law after street marches rallied hundreds of thousands of demonstrators both for and against it.

The move is France's most important social reform since the 1981 abolition of the death penalty and was a keynote campaign pledge by president Francois Hollande's ruling socialists.

But it is opposed by social conservatives in the majority Catholic country, and by many French Muslims and evangelical Christians.

France joins 11 other countries including Belgium, Portugal, the Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Norway and South Africa where same-sex marriage is legal.

Bob,

Same-sex marriage and homosexual unions are not the same thing.

Bob,

Same-sex marriage and homosexual unions are not the same thing.

Our protests might be taken more seriously if we stopped using the abominable term "same-sex marriage" and called it for what it is, a homosexual union. Euphemisms like "gay" and "same-sex" minimize the perverted nature of these unions and our use of them diminishes our disgust with the concept.

...there is no such thing as a same-sex marriage, it is totally illogical.

In all Australian states and territories, cohabiting same-sex couples are recognised as de facto couples, and have the same rights as cohabiting heterosexual couples under state law.

Same-sex marriages are not permitted under Australian federal law. In 2004 the Marriage Act 1961 was amended in federal parliament to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman and that any existing same-sex marriage from a foreign country is not to be recognised as a marriage in Australia.

Guillermo Villarreal, a Catholic journalist in Argentina, said it was well known at the time that Bergoglio's moderate position was opposed by Archbishop Héctor Rubén Aguer of La Plata, the leader of the hawks. The difference was not over whether to oppose gay marriage, but how ferociously to do so and whether there was room for a compromise on civil unions.

Bob,



http://www.cathnews.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=35645

terms like "Civil Unions" are the problem

Bob,



In discussing this issue both Cardinals Ratzinger and Bergoglio have used the term "civil union". If it's good enough for two popes, it's certainly good enough for me.

See the thread on Pope Francis on same sex civil unions
viewtopic.php?f=216&t=67816

James, terms like "Civil Unions" are the problem. Catholics and any other faith group not blinded by the hedonists must stop using these fluffy, fuzzy euphemisms and call this garbage what it truly is. Just a few decades ago a person could go to jail for sodomy, today it's considered chic. It seems we all have to either be or have friends who are homosexual to fit in; I don't buy any of this tripe! Around here we say you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

As I understand it, "civil unions" are in most countries different in legal ways than marriages.

Homosexual activists started out militating for "civil unions," promising that they would be satisfied with that and that they would never ask for marriage.

Homosexual activists started out militating for "civil unions," promising that they would be satisfied with that and that they would never ask for marriage.

A group of at least 14,900 French mayors has said it will not perform “gay marriages,” even if the government moves ahead with plans to legalize the practice.
...
On April 12, the French Senate passed the measure sponsored by President Hollande, but it has yet to go before the French National Assembly.

The Senate adopted the measure despite massive opposition from the public, including a demonstration attended by an estimated one million French citizens through the streets of Paris calling for the measure to be voted down.
...
“I am French, I am homosexual. The majority of homosexuals do not want either marriage or adoption, and we especially don’t want to be treated the same as heterosexuals because we are different,” she said. “We don’t want equality but we do want justice.”

Abbott 'softens' opposition to gay marriage

Thousands of opponents of a proposed gay marriage bill have thronged the streets of Paris in a last-ditch bid to block the legislation, under the watchful eye of police after recent violence.

As I understand it, "civil unions" are in most countries different in legal ways than marriages.

Homosexual activists started out militating for "civil unions," promising that they would be satisfied with that and that they would never ask for marriage.

Riot police battled hundreds of troublemakers in Paris at the end of a largely peaceful march by tens of thousands of people opposed to France's new gay marriage law.

The main demonstration saw three separate processions converging on the Invalides esplanade, filling the huge promenade with pink and blue - the official colours of the anti-gay marriage movement.

Police said 150,000 people turned out to protest, a figure immediately contested by organisers of the demonstration, who said 1 million opponents of the law had shown up.

By early evening, no incidents had been reported despite the presence of far-right activists, some of whom briefly unfurled a banner at the ruling Socialist party's headquarters urging president Francois Hollande to resign.

But as the protestors dispersed, police said up to 500 people began attacking them by throwing metal barriers, smoke flares and beer bottles.

Police said they arrested 96 people and used tear gas to fight off the troublemakers.

The youths shouted slogans against the government, such as "socialist dictatorship", and also threw objects at journalists covering the event.

Late on Saturday police had detained 50 people involved in an anti-gay marriage protest on the busy Champs-Elysees avenue.

Some 4,500 security forces were mobilised for Sunday's demonstration, billed as a last-ditch show of force by opponents of the bill allowing same-sex marriage and adoption, which was voted into law on May 18 following months of bitter protests.

Interior minister Manuel Valls had warned that so-called "ultras" - many of them far-right nationalists - were expected to infiltrate the protest and cause unrest, and advised parents not to bring their children with them.

But those in the protest ignored the recent tensions, bringing their children along as others had in previous demonstrations.

"We keep hearing about a far-right movement, I can see only families here," said one man called Raoul, who came from the city of Dijon.