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 Post subject: Icon Reading
PostPosted: 29 Apr 2005 17:05 
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I know there is interest in the reading of icons. There are so many and I do not know all but I can help with what people have in their homes. You can either explain the Icon or post a pic (Which would be easier) and I can explain a lot.

I am finishing up an explination of a 3 bar cross and will post that soon.

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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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PostPosted: 01 May 2005 05:46 
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Xpucmoc Bockpec

Hello
With help from family and much confusion here is a litle information about our Three Bar Cross.

Perhaps more a problem tan solution. Much is taken from different sources and some of my thoughts and memories.



The cross is the most prominent of all Christian symbols. It is symbolic of the crucifixion of Christ and His suffering and death for the sins of the world. St. Constantine, Emperor of the Roman Empire, placed the cross over the symbolic eagles of Caesar, and this emblem has been the standard symbol of Christian faiths the world over. The Slavonic cross is distinctive, especially in that it includes the lower bar or foot rest set at a diagonal. There are several historical explanations for this. Beginning in the ninth century, crucifixes began to have the additional footboard in the shape of a horizontal bar in addition to the earlier form which had an upright bar and a single cross bar. This lower bar provided a place for Christ to rest His feet. Byzantine artists used this form of the cross regularly.

The first Byzantine crosses had the added footboard placed horizontally, but successive Slavonic crosses put the lower bar at a sharp diagonal. This change took place between the tenth and eleventh centuries. One explanation is that it serves as a graphic rebuke to those who held the opinion that Christ did not actually suffer on the cross but only seemed to suffer. The inclined position of the lower bar indicates the intense reality of the suffering in the flesh by Jesus as He hung on the cross. His agony was so intense that His nailed feet wrenched loose the nailed parts of the cross when He thrust one foot down while drawing the other up.

Still another interpretation of the slanting footboard is that it symbolizes the part played by those two thieves who were crucified with Christ. The thief on the right repented and is represented by the raised side of the lower crossbar, while the lowered left side represents the other thief who blasphemed Christ during His crucifixion and was condemned. The extra cross bar at the top of the Slavonic cross represents the inscription board nailed above Christ on the cross. The inscription, "This is Jesus, the King of the Jews", was written in three languages, Greek, Latin and Hebrew. One explanation sometimes given in Eastern Church literature is that the Slavonic cross is the replica of the cross planted by the Apostle Andrew when he looked over the Carpathian Mountains of Ukraine bless the land and predicted that a great Church would arise. This would be the great church complex of Aya Sophia Holy Wisdom ( not Holy Wisdom of Constantinople ) or more commonly called St. Sophia in Kyiv to-day.

The Explanation:
The top bar is the title-board which Pilate ordered to be hung in mockery over Christ’s head on the Cross. On this board was inscribed: "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews" in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin (abbreviated to the Greek initials ‘INBI’ or the Latin initials ‘INRI’ in the Western tradition). In Ukrainian it is written ( Isus Nazorey Tsar Iudivsky ) but you will find it as I H U I, ( The Letter U should be slightly different)

On brass (any metallic ) or carved wooden hand cross or pectoral cross there are some drastic differences. This “ I H U I “ is replaced with the Christian inscription: "King of Glory" – below the knees of the image of angels which are seen on this cross. On the title-board is inscribed the initials 'IC XC', being the first and last letters of Christ’s name in Greek. In addition, just above Christ's arms we see the inscription: ‘NIKA’, which in Greek means: "He
conquers" or "He is victorious." Frequently, we see these last two
inscriptions together: 'IC XC NIKA', meaning: "Jesus Christ is victorious"
(over death and sin).


Explanation:

The middle bar is that on which the Lord's hands were nailed. Again on hand crosses on either top corner we see the depiction of the sun (left) and the moon (right), for "The sun hid its light, and the moon turned to blood." (Joel 2:31) The inscription: ""Son of God" is placed on both sides of Christ's head, and below His arms we read the inscription: "Before Thy Cross we bow down, O Master, and Thy holy Resurrection, we glorify". The halo of Christ is inscribed with three Greek letters meaning "The Being" or "He Who Is", to remind us that Christ is the same God Who identified Himself with those words to Moses in the Old Law



Explanation

The slanted bottom bar
is the foot-rest. There is some question of whether it was actually on the Cross of Christ, but it is acknowledged to be a necessary attribute of the Cross, worthy of veneration and prophetically alluded to in the words [Let us] worship the footstool of His feet... (Ps. 98:5).

In prayers for the Ninth Hour, the Church likens the Cross to a type of balance of righteousness:

"Between two thieves Thy Cross did prove to be a balance of righteousness: wherefore one of them was dragged down to Hades by the weight of his blasphemy whereas the other was lightened of his transgressions unto the comprehension of theology. O Christ God, glory to Thee."

The meaning of this prayer is as follows: the Cross of Christ stood for a scale of justice between the two thieves: for one of them sank in to hell, dragged down by his blasphemous words; and the other, the wise thief, ascended into heaven, because of his repentance. The church fathers attempted to render tangible the thought of the unfaithful thief going to hell for his blasphemy through the just judgment of God (the lower end of the bar), and of the wise thief going to heaven for his repentance and his praise of God (the upper end).



The modern St. Andrew's cross, however, is in the form of an "X", the shape of the cross upon which this disciple was crucified. (In his honour, the slanted portion of his cross was added to the bottom of the Saviour’s cross). The Slavonic cross, with its added inscription bar at the top, and one slanting footboard bar below, more fully symbolizes the crucifixion that the commoner simple cross, which has only one upright bar and only one crossbar.

On the Cross is our Savior, Jesus Christ… Note that He does not wear a crown of thorns, and that His feet are nailed with two nails.

Behind the body of Christ, on either side, are a lance (which pierced Him) and a sponge (which was soaked with gall and offered to Christ to drink) on a pole made of reed or cane.

At the very top of all three bar crosses is the icon "Ne-ruko-se-tvor-nay"=not made by hands or the veil of Veronica/Veronika. Here, for interest, her name means Vera=true or real, ika/ikona=icon and hence "true icon

This cross is used extensively both by Catholics of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church here in Canada and in Ukraine. and used by the Ukrainian (Greek) Orthodox, and Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox Greek Catholics ( Orthodox most OCA) all of whom are of Slavic descent who share the same heritage of Eastern Christianity.

To-day, even, Roman Catholics have started to come to appreciate the value of the Orthodox church’s iconography of “ Theology in Colour and Form”.

It was the custom to erect such large crosses before the entrance to towns and villages in Eastern Europe to ward off evil and unfriendly spirits, but, more to serve as a sign of welcome to fellow Christians passing by, and as a pledge to God of their solidarity as a deeply rooted Christian community.


But, you know, we Eastern Christians are a strange lot and more so strange because we are Slavs, and there is always "Shcho baba I mama meni skazalè =What baba and mama told me.”


Now, baba (Blessed Memory) was told by her mother, my prababa/greatgrandmother (Blessed Momory) that the lower bar which used to be straight, was for us.

On it, we put our sins and then we put ourselves on it.
We, at the bottom, are joined with Jesus on the cross .


Sometimes, we complain and ask Jesus if we can have at least one hand free …..He says “You are always free to choose”…you know the result….the weight is no longer evenly distributed and the bar “slants…downward”…pointing to where we are headed!

But… on the other side, it also points upward to
where Jesus wants us to go.


Baba said that we can always come back but the bar now will not correct itself but will always remind us of sinning and failure but, also, always of hope.


Most westerners see the cross only as crucifixion and death……….
but we Eastern Christians don’t see it like that. We see death, surely, but we see “Death”………and…………… “Resurrection” at the same time.

If fact, one day, I shall tell you of the priest’s two sided hand cross and the great two sided altar cross and its theological significance. But, my friend, you have enough here to digest.

Now back to babology ( A baba’s theology)……So, how do you hold on baba?

Simple! she said. “ Now you hang on to the feet of Jesus and remember where He walked….if you only walk where He would walk you can never get into trouble!”


This story brings back so many memories!!!!! And it is so old! But I never forgot.


It almost made sense to me but after reading this and without pictures it became difficult. So forgive me and my helper. I tried!

Xpucmoc Bockpec

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Kolya

























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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 01 May 2005 11:35 
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Oh, thank you Kolya, that was most interesting!
I try to picture it all, and although I probably miss many true details, I think you did a very good job of explaining!

Thanks,

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Stine Cecilia
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PostPosted: 01 May 2005 11:48 
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Patrick,
I am looking forward to it. I do have two icons in my home. One is a real painted Greek orthodox icon, another is a printed Russian icon. I only know rudimentary basics of reading my icons, so I would appreciate a tutorial. I tried to photograph one of them, but it didn't come out well at all, so I'll have to give it another go later. The other icon can be seen at this location. The shapes and symbols of it are a bit different from many similar motifs I have seen before, and I inquired about it just after I got it, but had no luck then. Maybe you will know what it "says".

Kind regards,

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Stine Cecilia
Married w/4 children - please pray for our family!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ora pro nobis, beate pater Dominice!
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Preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season
(2 Tim 4:2)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 01 May 2005 20:01 
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All,

HERE is the Link to a detailed explination of the 3 Bar Cross.

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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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PostPosted: 01 May 2005 21:23 
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Stine,
I have seen this before and it is called "Our Lady, Helper of all mothers". All I can tell you is that the four letters above Mary's head read the Mother of God. You need to tell me what is written on the right side of the icon. I know the style of icon as well but need to look up a reference to give you details, as well as details of the rest of the icon.

You will be able to get this info because I can not give it now and when I go to look something up someone always comes up with the answer. I should have my info tomorrow.

Is there anything you can tell me about the the other icon. Describe it as best you can or take a pic. Even a bad one will work for a discription. Minor detail is all I need, that is so I can read the words and letters.

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Hospody Isuse Khryste, synu zhyvogo Boga, pomylui mene grishnyka
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03 May 2005 06:53 
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mrs_lovstrom wrote:
Patrick,
I am looking forward to it. I do have two icons in my home. One is a real painted Greek orthodox icon, another is a printed Russian icon. I only know rudimentary basics of reading my icons, so I would appreciate a tutorial. I tried to photograph one of them, but it didn't come out well at all, so I'll have to give it another go later. The other icon can be seen at this location. The shapes and symbols of it are a bit different from many similar motifs I have seen before, and I inquired about it just after I got it, but had no luck then. Maybe you will know what it "says".

Kind regards,


Stine- I found this. While it is not exactly like your Icon, the main image is very similar http://www.printeryhouse.org/mall/Icons/Saints/g01.asp

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"But there is a far greater kind of poverty. It means being unwanted, unloved, and neglected. It means having no one to call your own"
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PostPosted: 03 May 2005 10:38 
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Kat,
-- Different in many ways, but it was interesting in that it identified the shape in which Jesus rests in the icon; namely the mandorla. I so wonder why it was chosen for this icon - your link says
Quote:
Jesus is enveloped in a mandorla, a symbol of Divine Revelation that represents a window into heaven. This symbol is used in icons of Transfiguration, Resurrection, and Last Judgment.
Which sort of puzzles me a little. I am still hoping for a more thorough explanation from Patrick.

I will see if I can make out more of the text on the icon.

@}--
StineC.


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PostPosted: 03 May 2005 16:46 
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Kat,
The Icon in your site is a variation of the " Our lady of the Sign". Stine's Icon represents the virgin at the birth of Jesus that is why she is holding the Christ in her hands. There are different phrases that go with this icon that is why i need the wording.

Stine,

If you have a scanner, scan the icon. it is possible. also you can see some of the sybols that you find in the link I gave above. when you sart to notice these then you can start to read them better. A reminder to all, you read an icon becauser it is not painted it is written. It is a long proccess that usually takes between two and three months to complete, along with the fasting and prayer. In some instances the icon writer, when they are done will take the icon to the church and have it lain upon the alter. they will lie prostrate outside the royal doors and there are prayers said. Then the priest will bless the icon and the iconographer will then use the icon to their pleasure. i.e. give it away or sell it or hang it.

Also, your icon, Stine, should be taken to the house of women who are giving birth if possible especially if they are having a hard pregnancy and/or Child birth.

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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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PostPosted: 03 May 2005 16:50 
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Kat,
The Icon in your site is a variation of the " Our lady of the Sign". Stine's Icon represents the virgin at the birth of Jesus that is why she is holding the Christ in her hands. There are different phrases that go with this icon that is why i need the wording.

Stine,

If you have a scanner, scan the icon. it is possible. also you can see some of the sybols that you find in the link I gave above. when you sart to notice these then you can start to read them better. A reminder to all, you read an icon becauser it is not painted it is written. It is a long proccess that usually takes between two and three months to complete, along with the fasting and prayer. In some instances the icon writer, when they are done will take the icon to the church and have it lain upon the alter. they will lie prostrate outside the royal doors and there are prayers said. Then the priest will bless the icon and the iconographer will then use the icon to their pleasure. i.e. give it away or sell it or hang it.

Also, your icon, Stine, should be taken to the house of women who are giving birth if possible especially if they are having a hard pregnancy and/or Child birth.

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Patrick Mitchell

Hospody Isuse Khryste, synu zhyvogo Boga, pomylui mene grishnyka
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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PostPosted: 03 May 2005 16:56 
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All,

Remember that these icons are the most precious items to an Easterner next to the Eucharist. Many people died trying to save these from the Communists. There are many icons that were robbed of their gold and burned. The icons were hidden and taken abroad to keep them out of wrong hands.

If you happen to have an old icon, do not have it refubished. you can have it cleaned but no more paints or stains are to go onto the icon. If it a hand written icon, not printed, it has been blessed and therefore should be treated as such. Do not use glue or velcro to hang the icon. lean it on a shelf or use hooks. To most it is not a work of art but a work of God.

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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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PostPosted: 03 May 2005 22:31 
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Kat,

It is understandable why you think these two icons are very close. They are two of a very few in which the Vigin Mary is not pointing at Christ with one hand. Take a look around at the many different icons of mother and child and you will see that she holds Christ in one hand and points to him in another as if to say Here is the son of God.

The Lady of the sign icon is written form Isaiah 7:14
Quote:
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el


In the Lady of the Sign icon Christ is clothed in Gold adult robes. Gold is the symbol for his divinity and He is in adult Robes for He is the King Of Glory. Christ will almost always be in Gold as Mary will almost always be dressed in Red. Red is the color of Royalty. In Stine's icon Christ is unclothed for the icon is about Mary, helper of Mothers, yet He is shown as an adult for he is complete within the womb. (Yeah Life :D ) and he has not been given to this world. The mandorla is still used in both because of His Divinity. The icon you show, Kat, uses the mandorla around Mary because it depicts the carmelites who are not in heaven and have that division between them.

In the Lady of the sign icon Christ holds a scoll or a book indicative of his prophetic message.

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PostPosted: 03 May 2005 22:38 
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To properly view icon do NOT put them under a spotlight. Turn out all the lights and light a candle. Hold this candle closs to the icon as you view it. This is the proper way to view icons. A painted (not printed) icon is unbelievably beautiful in this light. That is how they are written.

In our house when we get a new Icon we set it in the icon corner and wait until the sun goes down. We then set it up and light the candle where we all can read it. Then we find a place for it on the wall and hang it. We get a hanging candle to dangle in front of it. Most of our icons have to share candles. We have tall candles that are placed on the shelf and will illuminate icons.

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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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PostPosted: 04 May 2005 02:33 
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Stine -

The mandorla is used in Western paintings too (I have a book on visionary imagery in Spanish Renaissance art... don't ask). It usually separates the 'vision' from the 'visionary', or the 'spiritual' from the 'mundane' reality. In the case of an icon like yours, my guess (not that I know; I could ask Fr. Alex's wife - he's our Orthodox chaplain, she an icon painter) is that, because Christ is depicted as an adult and because He is as yet in the womb, it signifies something 'hidden' being 'revealed'.

O'course, like I say, I don't know...

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PostPosted: 04 May 2005 06:20 
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Praetor- thank you for the info. I am fascinated by icons. Regrettably non of the ones I own are painted (for cost reasons- I can't afford them) mine are all printed and mounted on wood. It's interested how you described them to be read by a candle. One thing I have noticed about a few of my icons... that when you hang it up & you are kneeling looking up, this particular angle gives the image a certain 3-d effect that is very startling. I had no idea about this effect til I had an icon resting on a table while I decided it was to be hung & it slid down and was laying flat. The angle was perfect & the image almost leaped out at me. Gave me quite a shock 8O :lol:

I am still learning how to read them. I knew of some of the detail & work that was recquired in the process but not the extent in which you described. It is all very fascinating. I doubt any of mine have been blessed though, I wouldn't treat them any less.

Where did you learn so much about icons? I got my degree in art history & I have talent (not baosting) but I would love to be able to restore icons. My dream job was to work in a musuem in art restoration. I would also like to paint my own but I was always under the impression that icons are to be left to the religious, not to be painted & reproduced by layity, kwim?

anyhoo... rambled again.

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PostPosted: 04 May 2005 06:52 
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Patrick,
I will scan it as soon as I have my scanner working again. Hopefully it will be in no time at all :)

The icon was with me in the hospital for the 5 weeks before Cecilia was born, and Mother helped me a lot during the intense labour. She helped me when I needed it the most, and I know Cecilia is alive and well today because of God's help.

I would have no problem whatsoever to recommend any woman in labour to Mother's loving aid. I have experienced the power of my icon. The midwives probably thought I was mad, bringing an icon into the delivery room and yelling for Mary to help me. (Afterwards I realized that that was also the midwife's name. :lol: )
Praetor wrote:
Also, your icon, Stine, should be taken to the house of women who are giving birth if possible especially if they are having a hard pregnancy and/or Child birth.

I'll try and post a detail in a few hours, hopefully.

Thank you again. You help me both understand, and consequently appreciate my icons much more.

Kindly,

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Stine Cecilia
Married w/4 children - please pray for our family!
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Ora pro nobis, beate pater Dominice!
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Preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season
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PostPosted: 04 May 2005 12:10 
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Look Look I found this :lol: http://www.byzcath.org/links/Art-and-Icons.htm

Maybe Stine you can find soemthing here from this list. I got this link from the Byzantine link in another thread. I am very excited to see that there is a Byzantine Catholic Church 2 miles from my mom's in VA & will probably check it out this weekend.

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"But there is a far greater kind of poverty. It means being unwanted, unloved, and neglected. It means having no one to call your own"
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PostPosted: 04 May 2005 13:32 
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Kat,

Let me rephrase. ALL Icons should be read with candlelight. The Painted icons give you a much beter effect than the mass produced but it will still give you a sense of the ture icon. Remember that all icons that hsve been printed were painted at one time.

Laymen are the most prominant writers of icons. Some of the religious do but the average is in the laymen's favor. The first steps to becoming an iconographer are to speak to your spiritual advisor. Preferably one who knows what it takes to become an iconographer. You need his blessing, yes there is a blessing for someone who will start the steps to become one. The next step is to find a tutor. Someone who can show you how to write icons. At that time your tutor will tell you what to do. I know how to do the work and believe that I could do a great job at it but I as with anything I have not been truely called to start this endevor.

There are different styles of iconogrphy and there are different schools of thought about how it is done. The most traditional way to start is to prepare the wood. This is a long process of nearly two months as the wood is soaked and bent and linen is streched across it. This is your "canvas". YOu can buy the wood pre prepared (?) but I don't really know where from. A local Iconorgapher I konw makes his own from scratch and he has a supply of them so there is always one there ready for him.
The rest is just the actual writing. THere are a series of prayers before and after you paint each layer of the icon and the there is fasting on certain days when you are in the process. I had a great write up on the process and the prayer but I can't for the life of me find it, sorry.

My schooling is in Classical history and I have just studied icon for many years. It takes me a while to translate the different words on the icon but a lot of them are the same for people. The rest I know from studying them over and over and over. There are subtle differences that really show themselves as you look more and more at the icons. I love icons and the spirituality that goes with them.

As for kneeling there is some truth to that. Most Orthodox and Eastern Catholic do not kneel when they pray so I cna't say for sure that they are written that way, however they are written when they are lying flat on a table. they ae not tilted as most painters do, so it could possibly tie in somehow. Never thought of that, you could be right. :D

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 Post subject: My Icon!
PostPosted: 05 May 2005 19:32 
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My icon is from the Ukraine of the Mother and Child.


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 Post subject: My Icon!
PostPosted: 05 May 2005 19:43 
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My icon is from the Ukraine of the Mother and Child. Blessed Mary is looking forward, head is tilted, face to face with the child, as the child is looking at the mother. They are both on a mound with a footprint in the mound The mother is in a red veil and robe. Both Mother and Child have a ring around their head and there is a radiant background. There is also a golden border
If anyone can help me to understand the, that would be greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: 06 May 2005 17:03 
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Juan,
I think I know what it is but I have a couple of questions.
Is the Virgin Mary Holding anything?
How is she holding the child?
What color is the hill?
How is the radient background portrayed? i.e. Is it smooth does it look like fire? What color is it?
Does the Virgin Mary have a crown or just the Halo?

There is no right or wrong answer but I need these answered because I think I know what it is and I wnat to be sure.

Oh, Is it painted or printed (See posts above)

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Patrick Mitchell

Hospody Isuse Khryste, synu zhyvogo Boga, pomylui mene grishnyka
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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PostPosted: 06 May 2005 17:38 
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Juan,

This is it, it has to be.

It is the "Lady of Pochaev". Some say the year was 1198 and others 1340. Remember these are really oral histories written in picture form. Not many could read back then and the history was never really written.

Anyway, two monks settled on the hill where the monastery is now situated. After prayer, one monk ascended to the summit of the hill, where suddenly he witnessed the Mother of God standing upon a rock, surrounded by flames. He called his brother to see this miracle. A third witness to the apparition was John Bosoy. He ran up the hill, and together the three glorified God. On the rock upon which the Most Holy Theotokos had stood remained a permanent imprint of Her right foot.

In 1559, Metropolitan Neophyte, a hierarch of the Church of Constantinople, was traveling through Volhynia, where he visited the noblewoman Anna Goisky. As a blessing to Anna, he left with her an icon of the Theotokos which had been brought from Constantinople. People began to note that light was emanating from the icon. (this is not the icon that you have. The Icon you have is a representation of the actual Marian apperation. Click :arrow: HERE to see what I believe is an icon like Juan's.
I can not find a picture of the Miracle working icon that was given Anna. Sorry I will keep looking.

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Hospody Isuse Khryste, synu zhyvogo Boga, pomylui mene grishnyka
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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 Post subject: My Icon Patrick!
PostPosted: 08 May 2005 21:55 
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Mr. Patrick,
Thank you very much for your willingness to help. Unfortunately, I do not believe your right, although very close. The icon is with the child sitting on top of the mother arms with the mother holding a with cloth. The child is also wearing a white rob and has brown hair.
Regarding your questions: The mother is facing down, to the left, looking forward and her head is resting against the childs head. The child is facing to the right-front, looking at his mother. There are halo's covering both heads, and has a smooth radiant image. The mound is brown and the Virgen Mary is standing right behind the mound. Part of her body is covered by the mound.
Thank you Patrick. Your first guess was a good guess. You sure know your icon's.
GOD BLESS YOU!
JuanDedios Puente Jr.


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PostPosted: 09 May 2005 05:47 
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Juan,
Actually I think I am right. Check my Link again. And Click :arrow: HERE for another icon of the same icon AS Well as :arrow: HERE and scroll down to a completely different style but still the "Our Lady of Pochaev" icon. If there is a footprint in the hill it is of a right foot. If this is not the icon I would need to see it.

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Hospody Isuse Khryste, synu zhyvogo Boga, pomylui mene grishnyka
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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PostPosted: 11 May 2005 02:11 
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Patrick,

I have been able to scan my two icons now; I had to go to my mother's and borrow her scanner. I updated my web site, so if you follow this link, you can see a detail of the Mary icon, and there is also my other, Greek icon that wouldn't come out good in a picture.

Thank you so much for educating us :D

P.S. I noticed a typo in my last post. I wasn't in hospital for 5 weeks, but 3 before the baby was born. The icon of our Mother was a great help.

Kindly,

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Preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season
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PostPosted: 12 May 2005 15:44 
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Stine,
Thanks for the links. I love the Helper Icon. My Russian is as rusty as a delelict ship in the ocean. The writing on the front portrays about the same as the back, to a point.

On the back it reads Икоиа Божиєй Матери помощница в родах. The best I can do is Icon______Mothers the assistant in sorts. Which I can roughly believe to be more on the lines of Icon of the Mothers helper in sorts of becomming a mother. Something like that. On the Front youhave the same words, to a point like I said. Помощнй is helper with the ца on the second line. I am unfamilier with some of the characters and therefore can not help further until I talk to a friend of mine who is fluent.

As For the Icon of St. Spyridon. I do not know much about him except you can read his name at the top. He makes the ICXC with his right hand and he carries the Gospel. I do know from the icon that he was a Bishop, from the sash tht he wears. I forget what it is called right now. He is the patron St. of Corfu. Which is a neat island but there is a hotel there for english speakers called the Pink Palace and I didn't like it very much.
When I was ther in 1996 I wrecked a motor scooter by slipping on some olive oil on the road. Two weeks later I was rushing to Ireland to spend two weeks in Hospital for disintary. But that's another story. Like I said, give me a few days to get a more accurate translation.

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Hospody Isuse Khryste, synu zhyvogo Boga, pomylui mene grishnyka
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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PostPosted: 13 May 2005 06:00 
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Xpucmoc Bockpece
Christ is Risen

Hello

Your icon is, in truth, that of St. Spyridon.

Originally this saint was a shepherd in his youth and this is seen in that he wears a typical shepherd's cap and not the mitra or Bishop's mitre.

He is much beloved by our community here and his day is celebrated.

The sash(?) or do you mean the white cloth around the shoulders?

This is called an omophorion( Greek) / omophor( Slavonic) and worn by bishops. I was stold that it wanders over and around to symbolize the forty years the children of Israel wandered in ther desert. ( Probabably more yayology...Greek grandmother stories but maybe some fact! )

Khristos Voskrese
Christ is Risen

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Kolya


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PostPosted: 13 May 2005 06:06 
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Koyla,

Omophor!!! :oops: :oops:

Thank you. I get brain freeze a lot when I am posting. I do not know what the symbolism of it is I only know that if a person is wearing it in an Icon it means they were a bishop.

Indeed He is Risen!

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Hospody Isuse Khryste, synu zhyvogo Boga, pomylui mene grishnyka
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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PostPosted: 13 May 2005 17:07 
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:arrow:HERE is an excellent and short peice of the "Importance of the Icon in Byzantine tradition" it is an excerpt written by Archbishop Joseph Raya & Baron José de Vinck

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Hospody Isuse Khryste, synu zhyvogo Boga, pomylui mene grishnyka
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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 Post subject: Patrick
PostPosted: 14 May 2005 23:13 
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Thank you very much for helping me figure out the icon. I appologize for doubting your guess at first. I have seen your icons, and they are similiar, except mine is a more recently produced icon. Thank you again.
Juan Puente Jr.


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PostPosted: 21 May 2005 05:00 
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Hi all;

Tradition holds that the San Damiano Icon Cross was brought to Italy by Ukrainian monks fleeing persecution in the 13th century.

Would anyone care to elaborate?

James

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et eritis odio omnibus propter nomen meum.
And you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake.

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PostPosted: 21 May 2005 05:54 
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I do not know a lot about the Icon myself but you can go :arrow: HERE and there is an excellent explination of the icon and its menaings.

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Hospody Isuse Khryste, synu zhyvogo Boga, pomylui mene grishnyka
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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PostPosted: 27 Sep 2005 13:54 
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[b]Slava Isusu Khrestu

Hello To All

When I read these posts, I notice that many use the title " Our Lady" of Pochaev.

The proper title for these and all icons is not Our Lady ( very Roman Catholic) but ususally The Mother of God Of Pochaev.


Quite often, you will not see the word " ikon" on the icon but the word " Obraz" which means image.

I am always surpeised how free, Roman Catholics use the name of the mother of God so freely, that is " Mary".

We would not dare to be so free. Often, we would call her Bohoroditse ( Ukrainian) or Panagia (Greek for the All Holy One.

Unworthy
Kolya

Please forgive the strangnessin my typing. I try to be fancy but end up in a mess and do not know how to correct it


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2005 01:27 
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Kolya,
you say you use the name of the blessed virgin mother less often than we do. That surprised me. Would you like to come over to the BVM subforum and discuss this?
Kind greetings,

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Married w/4 children - please pray for our family!
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Preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season
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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2005 17:58 
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Koyla,

"Our Lady" is not necessarily Roman catholic but English. My Church is "Our Lady of Perpetual Help". I see nothing demeening in The use of Our Lady. Though I am not Roman Catholic I am Byzantine and American so I use "Our Lady" which I see can be translated into many things. OUr Lady is Mother of God.

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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have Mercy on me, a sinner


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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2005 08:06 
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Slava Isusu Khrestu

My Dear Patrick Michell

I did not mean to imply the use of " Our Lady " was demeaning :cry: but that often, I hear her name "Mary" used freely. Perhaps it is the way we were raised in the Orthodox church to refer to her as " Panagia" and in our old church as "Panni Matka Maria" (Mrs. Mother Mary ....but I remember that Panni can also mean Lady :o ).

I was just stating my personl opinion from experience and upbringing.

Much in same way as my own mother of blessed memory had the name Hannja ( Anna), I would call her mama and likewise, may people my age would call her Mrs Petrovich. People her age called her and older would call her "Panni" or "Kerija" Hannja ..Mrs Hannja. Yes, she was also called by her name but by close friends and family.

Yet at same time there is much to be admired..I am impressed :D by young children from the Catholic school close to were I live when I am invited by relatives for celebrations in their church. I hear them speak of " Lord Jesus" and not just " Jesus" "Mother Mary" and not just "Mary".

Again I apologize and mean no disrespect :oops: .

There is enough for my people to complain about justly and unjustly but on this forum it is a place for building bridges not wall.

Unworthy
Kolya :oops:


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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2005 00:58 
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Kolya,
I did not read any disrespect into what you wrote. I think your view is interesting. However, I don't think we mean any disrespect either by calling the Blessed Mother by her name :) I had written a post proposing a discussion on this in the BVM section, but I hadn't submitted it, and in your response to Patrick M you explain this well, I think.

Did you know that although she now has millions of girls and women named after her, but when the faith was young in our country, it was completely unheard of to give a girl the name of Maria. It was reserved for the Mother of God. Only after several hundred years did people start naming their children after the Blessed Virgin. The name "Jesus" have never been in use in our culture, but in Latino cultures it is very common. A Norwegian would probably say that it would be blasphemy to call a child Jesus, a Mexican would say the complete opposite, wouldn't he?

I find it very interesting how we express our faith, devotion, respect and admiration in so different ways. Yet in these our different ways we all love our God, our Saviour and his Mother :-)

Kind regards,

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Stine Cecilia
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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2006 11:21 
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Some Orthodox Icons:

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/9595/um6xc.jpg

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/2986/vse5ty.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1763/17tj3.jpg - Bethlehem icon

This pictures i made with my cheap camera, so the quality is not very good:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8006/chernigov5jr.jpg - icon 'Prizri na smireniye'
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/341/ ... ria6np.jpg - icon 'Conception', it depicts saints Ioakim and Anna. According to eastern christianity the Mother of God was conceived in natural way.

(off topic)-
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6498/climent5de.jpg
old moscow street with church called "Pope Climent's" ( it is Orthodox, sanctified in the name of saint Climent).
http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/5681 ... ent8fx.jpg
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/4943/c8el.jpg

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