Catholic Online Forum

Shlomo

Usualy in my syriac catholic church, the preist says " Please pray for your catholic brothers, and also the orthodox, protestants and for eveyone on this earth ", that is the only time the word catholic as a rite or sect is mentioned in the liturgy, and it includes orthodox in it.
The other one is the world catholic in the creed, and that has a different meaning,


In the syriac orthodox church , the preist says " God protect our orthodox brothers " and " Pray for your orthodox brothers " 6 times, they do not mention any other sect or rite .

I was wonderiing, why they they do that? what does it mean when they onyl mention orthodox ?


Thank you

Wisam

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IF I WAS NOT BORN CATHOLIC, I WOULD HAVE BECAME A CATHOLIC.

I'm only guessing from first glance (I'll try to ask my priest tonight) but I know in the Russian tradition we pray for Orthodox first, Cathechumines, then non-Orthodox Christians, then non-Christians. In the Liturgy however, it is primarily for only Orthodox. My guess would be because the liturgy is offered for the intercessions of the Church and we view non-Orthodox as out of the Church, our prayers in Liturgy would be primarily for their conversion and not rather for the intercessions of the Church as they would be without grace. I hope this helps, and I'll see if I can find a better answer.

Daniel

Wisam,

Although speaking as a non-Orthodox, I believe that Daniel has correctly enunciated the understanding of his Church.

Many years,

Neil

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"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community." Sayedna Joseph Tawil, 1st Eparch of Newton of the Melkites, 1970

Still, i can not understand why!


thank you
Wisam

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IF I WAS NOT BORN CATHOLIC, I WOULD HAVE BECAME A CATHOLIC.

My apologies, but I cannot think of a better way to explain it than that. If I have time, I'll try to find a more satisfactory answer. Now, it should be noted that we pray for non-believers of the Orthodox faith, but ithey're not listed by name.
One example is a prayer in Matins where we ask

"Save O Lord and have mercy on them that hate and wrong me, and make temptation for me, and let them not perish because of me a sinner. Bow

Illumine with the light of awarness the apostates from the Orthodox Faith, and those blinded by pernicous heresies, and number them with Thy Holy, Apostolic, Catholic Church. Bow

----
Also, I've just remembered that in the Liturgy/mass of both the east and the west, it was primarily for the faithful and not the non-Orthodox/Catholics. In the Divine Liturgy of John Chyrsostem and in the Tridentine Latin Mass one can see where the priest dismisses the cathecumines. Thus, the liturgy is for the Church and the Church is the baptized faithful

Daniel

My apologies, but I cannot think of a better way to explain it than that. If I have time, I'll try to find a more satisfactory answer.

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Also, I've just remembered that in the Liturgy/mass of both the east and the west, it was primarily for the faithful and not the non-Orthodox/Catholics. In the Divine Liturgy of John Chyrsostem and in the Tridentine Latin Mass one can see where the priest dismisses the cathecumines. Thus, the liturgy is for the Church and the Church is the baptized faithful

Daniel

I guess I kind of got the idea, In other words the blessings go to the orthodox ones ( the only ones going to heaven i guess ),, and the rest are just prayed for to be orthodox to go to heaven ?

I mean, serisouly for you as an orthodox, and me as a catholic, dont you think that we should bless every Apsotlic church in our liturgies ? We must get closer and not away from each other.

Thank you
Wisam

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IF I WAS NOT BORN CATHOLIC, I WOULD HAVE BECAME A CATHOLIC.

Well, first of all, one has to remember that in Orthodoxy we believe we are the true Church. Even though we believe Rome definitly has Apostolic Origins and was the first among equals, we also believe that it has apostocized thus it would be improper for us to commemorate it as a Church in the Liturgy until re-union. Also, it must be understood that although we acknowladge that one must be Christian to reach heaven we also realize that non-Christians will be saved. How? We don't know, but we trust in the infinate mercy of Christ. For as Fr. Seraphim said, we should be worried of our own salvation and let God take car eof the others.

I can see why this may be difficult for a non=Orthodox to come over, but it is just rooted in our Traditions.

I understand you, but the is selfish lol, worry about me and let god take care of the rest? Dont get me in a mean or rude way, i am just trying to make the whole discussion cool and no friction, those are things nice to know for the sake of our unity.

What you do for any of those children, then for me you did it, also if some one asked to walk 1 mile with him, walk 2. He did not say if a beleiver asked you ....... , he said someone/somebody. So i think that all churches must be included ( at least the catholic ) sincew you beleive they there will be saved discregarding if how it will happen. I dont know really, but that is my point of view.

thank you
Wisam

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IF I WAS NOT BORN CATHOLIC, I WOULD HAVE BECAME A CATHOLIC.

I understand you and I can only give two replys:

1.) Who am I to argue with 2000 years of Tradition. I am just a sinner, thus I shall trust St. James of Jerusalem, St. John Archbishop of Constantinople, and St. Basil the Great, along with the other Holy Fathers. They definitly knew what belongs better in the liturgy than we would.

2.) Just to clarify, I don't know whether he will save non-believes, but it is in his possibility and they do have less of a burdan than I do. I just trust that he will do what is neccesary. Perhaps in the end will be cast into hell or maybe all will be saved including Satan himself. I do not know. All's I know is that I should repent and trust in the infinate Mercy of Christ.

Daniel

Daniel Wrote :

Obviosly you dont not trust St Peter, the one that jesus called him the rock, So what are the qualifications for a Saint to be trusted for a sinner ?

thank you
Wisam

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IF I WAS NOT BORN CATHOLIC, I WOULD HAVE BECAME A CATHOLIC.

Wisam,

Not to be rude, but you are starting to read too much into what I say. I was using that list as the makers of liturgies in the Byzantine Rite. I have a high respect for St. Peter and I find your accusation very insulting.

Daniel

Daniel,
My refereance to Respect of St Peter, is linked to the papcy issue between both churches, and not for insulting purposes as you might think.

Wisam

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IF I WAS NOT BORN CATHOLIC, I WOULD HAVE BECAME A CATHOLIC.