Catholic Online Forum

Well, google.com and other web search engines have software called search robots. Basically, they go out and search and map the internet for new sites and new data. You do not have to submit your site to google to get indexed by their robots. All you have to do is set up a public website and you run the risk. I guess what they are doing is illegal. I'm no expert, just passing this along.

Hmmm we had to submit the site to google, altavista, yahoo and others?

_________________
kell g.


"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."
Albert Einstein

I fear my idea of is no longer a joke.

_________________
- Joe Kelley

Death is only a shadow across the path to Heaven.

All:

Before I pull every hair out of my old gray head, I am going to relight this thread in the hopes that all those who did not read it the first time will have another opportunity.

In keeping with that, I am going to try one more time to get across the message that, so far, has failed to be understood by many.

Folks, please, you cannot, must not, shall not, copy written material from any other source to this Forum unless you have permission from the Copyright owner and from Father Zuhlsdorf.

That includes all material that:

is interesting
is vital
is crucial
is sent to you Email
is contained on other Web Sites
is published by the Catholic Church
is published by any Church
is sent to you by the Pope, your Bishop, your Pastor
is cute, sweet, comical, laudable, praiseworthy
is mean spirited, anti-catholic, vicious, dishonest
is gracious, pro-catholic, benevolent, truthful
etc. etc. etc.
This list is not all inclusive.

If you did not write the material originally but it exists in some written form, it may not be copied. Some material which does not exist in written form is also covered under the Law.

If you did write the material but yielded ownership to any other person, entity, business, such as a publisher, it may not be copied.

There is an exception in law to this. If the material's source is of an age spelled out in the Copyright Law of the U.S. and you are copying from that source, it may be copied. I think that age is 90 years, but I am not positive at the moment. I am fairly certain this does not apply to more current translations of documents originally in another language. The translation takes on its own standing in the law.

Please, every day we have to move material off the Forum because of this. We don't like to do that, especially when the material is useful.
So, here is what to do to help us avoid it.

1. Paraphrase the material and write the ideas in your own words. That does not mean to change a word here and there. It must be a paraphrase so thorough that it would not be recognized as being essentially the same as the original writing.

2. Provide a link to the Web Site where it appears if that Web Site does not disallow links.

3. Give reference to the source where it may be read by accessing that source. Do not copy it in addition to giving the source.

4. This list is not all inclusive.

There is a provision in the Copyright Law of the U.S. called "Fair Use". This provision provides that parts of documents may be copied for academic discussion and some other purposes. "Part", as far as I know, is not defined and each instance is subject to juidicial review. Thus, you are on your own as to how much you can safely copy. The Staff of the Forum will err on the side of caution in deciding whether to remove it or not.

"Part" does not mean:

1. The entire document

2. A major section such that the entire document becomes of no value when the "part" is read.

3. Any other definition which would exclude the idea "small part".

If you have any questions at this point, please read this thread where most questions were discussed earlier. If your question is not answered there, please ask before copying anything to the Forum.

Please also keep in mind that this Forum is not responsible for your violating the Law. (See: viewtopic.php?p=230#230)

I believe the current penalty in the law is $20,000 (U.S. currency) per copy made. I do not know how that is applied when millions of copies are made on computer screens via the Internet. I would not wish to find out personally.

Also, Copyright Laws vary by nation, but most nations respect the Copyright Laws of other nations in a reciprocal agreement.

DISCLAIMER: I am not an attorney. I have only done the best I can to get the point across without rendering a legal opinion.

Thank you for your kind attention.

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

Hello Everybody, If you don't remember that's OK, but I have fond memories of you--all! Do you think my picture I added is legal or moral? I copied it off the Internet a long time ago and don't remember where I got it. If it looks like a stolen picture, let me know and I will change it!

_________________
In Christ,
Kathleen Ruth

Kathleen;

I just checked Sherlock and Google - neither of them can find that picture under that name. You appear to be safe. (I'll check Lycos Multimedia, just to be sure. Just thought of that!)

_________________
In the Sacred Heart of Jesus,

Judith Teresa McRae; BFA

"Without the light of Christ, the light of reason is insufficient." - Pope Benedict XVI

Kathleen;

Lycos never heard of it, either.

_________________
In the Sacred Heart of Jesus,

Judith Teresa McRae; BFA

"Without the light of Christ, the light of reason is insufficient." - Pope Benedict XVI

Dear Judith Thank you, Love Kathleen

_________________
In Christ,
Kathleen Ruth

Thomas,



I don't know about the Catholic Encyclopedia. However, if memory serves, the Bishops retained copyright to the Catechism. Individual publishers only have rights to the typeset and images in the printed material. As far as the publishers are concerned, they can only go after you if you -- for example -- scanned a page of their edition into a PDF file and then provided a link in the forum to that file. They have no rights over what the Catechism actually says.

As far as the Bishops ownership of the material... I think -- though I could be wrong -- that the Bishops want the wording of the Catechism to reach as many people as possible, in as many ways as possible.

Kathleen,



Hey!!! That looks like the picture I drew 6 years ago. I was wondering where it went!

Ahh William! Here is the text that went with that picture! So, would your drawing be an (illegal ?) hand-drawn copy of an illegal 'cut and past' copy?

_________________
In Christ,
Kathleen Ruth

Kathleen,

Oooh... gross... guess not!

I've yet to see any two boards agree on copyright rules.

Is this what this thread is saying:

"In the beginning...
[snip]
The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen"?

_________________
Paul OH
Matthew 8:8-10

Read the Rules and Policies, Paul, it is very clear.

And we aren't worried about other boards, just this one.

_________________
Bill H

"Only request in my behalf both inward and outward strength...that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one." -- St. Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans

Lt. Commander Bill

I'm not trying to be a wise guy...
I'm just very curious

OK

last night in football

NY Jets 13
Wash 16

Do we need a cite for that, or to refer to a link? No, of course not...public domain, common knowledge...

Now, if a sports writer had written an article about one of the players in the game, then I could see where copyright kicks in...

So, for news articles, what I'm getting from this thread is just refer to the article, post the link and direct people to the link...

Or am I not getting it?

_________________
Paul OH
Matthew 8:8-10

Paul,



No you pretty well got it.

Rule of thumb do not post anything if you are in doubt, links are generally (but not always) okay, Short little cites from articles are generally okay......but keep them short.

What most people don't see is that we enforce this to protect YOU the poster because the Forum is not libel, YOU are!

BobC
COL STaff

The US Code, of which Title 17 is a part, is civil, not criminal. This means that it's based on liability, which means, essentially, harm, or injury.

There is no copyright police, or branch of the government out there, searching forum postings for possible copyright infringement. It's not a criminal matter.

It would be civil litigation, brought by the author or creator of the work himself or herself. Title 17 is just an elaboration and articulation of common law principles.

The harm to the creator or author of the work would have to be based on some sort of loss or fraud.

Plagiarism, of course, would be a species of fraud. The author or creator would be losing income.

But, if you were plagiarizing and profiting from the work of another, you would know it. There would be no question.

A "good faith" usage, like in "fair use" is another matter entirely. You're just passing along useful information, or referring to a point of view.

You would put quotes around the text. You would cite the source and give attribution. If you wanted to eliminate some words or phrase that had no relevance to your particular usage, you would place three dots . . . to show that something was missing. You would only do this in a way that would not interfere with the meaning of the original.

If you wanted to only quote from past the antecedent, you would replace the pronoun with its antecedent, but [bracket] it to show that it's a minor change for clarity.

You're not profiting, and you're not pretending that you wrote these particular words yourself. It's good to be aware, but nothing to worry about that much.

Shakespeare, the Bible, classics of literature, and pretty much anything disseminated by the U.S. Government is public domain. Also, of course, state and local governments.

The Forum, of course, is free to promulgate any rules it chooses. Forum members are free to either accept the rules and stay, or to not join the Forum.

I don't like this rule against the quoting of copyrighted material. Therefore, I choose to leave this forum.

Parting is such sweet sorrow . . .

Diana,

For the benefit of others who read the above message:

Shakespeare, the Bible, classics of literature, and pretty much anything disseminated by the U.S. Government is public domain.

Translations of any work from another language are often Copyrighted as long as they don't fall under the age limitations. Thus, the Bible with the exception of certain versions which are older are Copyrighted. Many of the "classics of literature" are in modern translation and are thus Copyrighted. Shakespeare, transliterated from old English to modern English would likely be also.

"Profit" has no bearing on it at all. "Plagiarism" may or may not. It depends on the work being plagiarized.

"Fair use" permits copying limited amounts for academic/discussion purposes. It does not permit the copying of an entire work or an excessive portion of the work.

Regardless of the civil law, there is also the Moral Law which prescribes that stealing is always wrong. Using the honest work of others without just recompense and/or permission is stealing.

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

Diana,

Regardless of what you might think of our rules they are our Rules and Policies.

See: viewtopic.php?p=95620#95620

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

Bye.

_________________
Bill H

"Only request in my behalf both inward and outward strength...that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one." -- St. Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans

That is why I wrote the following, in my first post on this topic:

"I don't like this rule against the quoting of copyrighted material. Therefore, I choose to leave this forum."

Hope the above quote doesn't get deleted.

You said that before. I thought you were leaving? Is that like a "I'm leaving for good." or an, "I am leaving for a minute, but I might come back and gripe about your policies some more."?

_________________
Bill H

"Only request in my behalf both inward and outward strength...that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one." -- St. Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans

Apparently Rule 11 is the one to which you refer in this matter.

However, I don't think it says what you're claiming it says.

Rule 11 says to identify the source. Then, it also says that questionable material without documentation will be removed.

Someone here has stated that all quoted material will be removed.

That is not in the Rules and Policies.

MODERATOR WARNING:

Forum Rules and Policies are available at:

viewtopic.php?p=95620#95620

Please note:



A. R. Liotta
Staff COL

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

I have my options set to notify me when someone replies to a post.

Diana,

Someone here has stated that all quoted material will be removed.

That may be what you think you read, but nowhere is such a thing said on this Forum to my knowledge.

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

"Please remember that the copying of news stories, no matter what the source, including other web sites, is a violation of Copyright Law and is forbidden by the Rules and Policies of this Forum.

All such postings, which do not have proper permissions, will be removed from the board as soon as they are spotted." [Emphasis added.]
<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<

"Folks, please, you cannot, must not, shall not, copy written material from any other source to this Forum unless you have permission from the Copyright owner and from Father Zuhlsdorf.
That includes all material that:
is interesting
is vital
is crucial
is sent to you Email
is contained on other Web Sites
is published by the Catholic Church
is published by any Church
is sent to you by the Pope, your Bishop, your Pastor
is cute, sweet, comical, laudable, praiseworthy
is mean spirited, anti-catholic, vicious, dishonest
is gracious, pro-catholic, benevolent, truthful
etc. etc. etc.

"This list is not all inclusive.

"If you did not write the material originally but it exists in some written form, it may not be copied. Some material which does not exist in written form is also covered under the Law. . . .
"Please, every day we have to move material off the Forum because of this. We don't like to do that, especially when the material is useful.
So, here is what to do to help us avoid it.

"1. Paraphrase the material and write the ideas in your own words. That does not mean to change a word here and there. It must be a paraphrase so thorough that it would not be recognized as being essentially the same as the original writing.

"2. Provide a link to the Web Site where it appears if that Web Site does not disallow links.

"3. Give reference to the source where it may be read by accessing that source. Do not copy it in addition to giving the source.

"4. This list is not all inclusive."

Diana,

"Please remember that the copying of news stories, no matter what the source, including other web sites, is a violation of Copyright Law and is forbidden by the Rules and Policies of this Forum.

All such postings, which do not have proper permissions, will be removed from the board as soon as they are spotted."

Do you see the words "news stories" in the above? Not "all quoted material" as you declared, but specifically "news stories".

Do you see the words "All such postings" referring to "news stories"? Not "all quoted material" as you declared, but "news stories".

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now, you have attached part of a second post to what you quoted. But for some reason you have neglected to attach the entire post. You have left out:

Since that clearly states that there are exceptions which "may be copied for academic purposes and some other purposes" it is clear that "all quoted material will be removed" cannot possibly be meant.

Repeating, nowhere on this forum, to my knowledge, does it say that "all quoted material will be removed" as you declared. It states that "news stories" and material outside Fair Use, copied without permission, will be removed. Obviously anything copied with permission will also not be removed.

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

For More INFO go to
http://www.lightshinedesigns.com/dontcutnpaste.html Hope this HELPS!

_________________
This is the Day the LORD Has MADE: Let us
REJOICE and be GLAD in it! Nick
GBU= GOD BLESS YOU!
GOD LOVES US ALL!

oops I did a booboo Just as an example!

_________________
This is the Day the LORD Has MADE: Let us
REJOICE and be GLAD in it! Nick
GBU= GOD BLESS YOU!
GOD LOVES US ALL!

Chris,

All that may be true, but what matters here are the Rules and Policies of this Forum.

viewtopic.php?p=95620#95620

See #11, 12 & 13.

In addition, if you read what you posted, it was quite clear that the posting of the full text of a document is not "Fair Use" according to the author of the text posted.

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

Well I guess I did a boo boo in the Third Orders topic when I put the link to St. Teresa's shrine. Sorry I didn't know it until now and I can't delete it. Sorry.

_________________
Michelle C.

"My God, my God, I love Thee in the Most Blessed Sacrament."-Prayer of Fatima

Michelle,

"Links" are usually fine.

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

Tony,

I thought when websites can't be copied, I thought that meant the links to them?

_________________
Michelle C.

"My God, my God, I love Thee in the Most Blessed Sacrament."-Prayer of Fatima

Michelle,

Links are usually fine, copying whole pages is not. On some rare occassions a WEB site might say do not link, in which case, do not link

_________________
Bob C

Michelle,

A link isn't a copy. The only links that are usually a problem would be anti-catholic stuff and, possibly, those where the site has forbade links. Yours was OK.

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

Where would it say not to link if the website forbids the link? I know mine was alright, but just so I don't possibly miss a website. I'll know where to look.

_________________
Michelle C.

"My God, my God, I love Thee in the Most Blessed Sacrament."-Prayer of Fatima

Michelle,

Where would it say not to link if the website forbids the link?

Wherever they choose to put it; there is no standard. I'd take a look at their Copyright statement but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be there. I've only seen 2 sites that said anything about it at all. If it isn't obvious I don't go looking for it.

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

Again

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

Again

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

Again.

If you choose to comment, please read the entire thread before doing so. Be sure it says what you think it says. Quite often it does not.

_________________
Tony Liotta

Jesus is weeping again.
"No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." (Lk 9:62)
"No one can serve two masters; ...... You cannot serve God and mammon", (i.e., money, wealth, prosperity). (Matt. 6:24)

Actually, it was two words.
A literal translation would be: Steal not!

_________________
Best regards,
Dave.

Until you can see the universe through the eyes of your enemy, you will never find peace. (Thoughts of Chairman Dave)
You might like to read The forgotten Gospel:
http://www.btinternet.com/~daveat168

This can be usefully bumped to the top.

_________________
o{]:¬)