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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2011 23:08 
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USCCB staff member retracts column linking Satan to origins of homosexuality

I am confused by this. Is there really a theological error in the column?
I should think with the creation of the new committee for religious liberty that the US bishops formed, they would be sticking up for the truth even if it is politically incorrect. Although it is not clear whether he was asked to retract or he decided on his own that he should.

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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2011 00:03 
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Grace,

there is a problem with that passage in that that column, which was pretty much on target on basically everything else (but I read it only once and didn't stop to reflect on it so my assertion will not rise to the level of Ordinary Magisterium binding on consciences of the faithful :P :P ). The problem is that the good intention of refuting the foolish pro-deviancy argument about God as the author of homosexuality turns into a "the devil made me do it" solution, which is just as foolish, and most of all dangerous for the souls in that it hinders the comprehension of the dynamic relationship between creation in the image and likeness of God, original sin, its consequences on our flesh, actual sin, Grace, victory over our flesh, and finally redemption and salvation.

Acts of deviant sexuality, if committed with deliberate consent and full knowledge are always and without exception a mortal sin, an abomination before God and a lethal poison to the mind and the body. Period. The devil might have tempted us to commit them, but who said "yes" to the temptation? Who lived in a way that weakened and then destroyed all our defenses against our bad tendencies? Who put ourselves in dangerous situations and willingly failed to avoid the near occasions of sin? We did! The devil might have helped help set the stage, but he works with what WE give him.

Disordered tendencies, on the other hand, are ultimately the fruit of the sin of Adam and Eve. our first parents. We aren't at fault for having them, but we are responsible for aquiescing to them and for failing to fight agaisnt them with the help of God and a responsible use of creatures and created things (meaning: seeking good friends, good spiritual advice, makinf a rational use of what God gives us in our lives for our salvation).

The devil didn't force the hand of our first parents, otherwise they would be innocent, and we would be still in Eden.

I think I understand what the article was trying to say, but the way it came out, there was a risk to cast the frightening shadow of satanic possession over anybody suffering from disordered tendencies. And that would be extremely cruel and unjust. I cannot exclude that some of the leaders of the homosexualist movement are under the direct control of the enemy of our soul, OTOH:

1) that could be said of any evildoer, HOWEVER:
2) human ability to do evil only rarely decreases to the point of requiring direct interventions of the devil, and
3) we must be very careful to avoid logical traps that would end up reinforcing errors concerning individual responsibility. If "the devil made me do it", then I am not guilty, sin doesn't exist and the God of the Bible is cruel (absit iniura verbis).
4) The above mentioned militants are only a tiny minority of the part of the population suffering from homosexual tendencies. We must avoid unjust labelling of brothers and sisters whose crosses are different from our own, but nonetheless are in need of our prayers, or love and our help to carry it without yielding to the "lust of the flesh, the lust of the world and the pride of life" (1 John 2:16), just as we are. Of course homosexual tendencies are more gravely disordered than other tendencies, in that what leads us to violate God's law - natural or revealed - more egregiously cannot be said to be as grave as minor transgressions. We know that there is a psychological component to the homosexual tendency which at times requires specialized compentence. OTOH, that is true of other tendencies as well.

In sum, careful with evoking the enemy of our souls when most of the times all it takes is human will.

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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2011 03:17 
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Fabrizio,

It seems that what you're saying is that what the author said is correct, but might be misinterpreted, and that's why you think it was retracted?

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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2011 06:39 
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Larry,

as I said I read it only once but no, I do not think that the argument is convincing and I know that it can lead to supporting the claims about God made by the enemies of the family and of Christianity.

What I said is that I think I understand was he was trying to do but he missed the mark by a mile. The result was that he sounded like embracing a determinism within moral acts that we cannot accept in the light of Catholic doctrine and of right reason. Once you accept the wrong premises of the adversary, you lose. That they realize it or not, the weakness of the good guys today resides deeply in trying to find a "middle-ground" with what can never be compromised with. Compromise between truth and lie is only a more sophisticated lie, with the added risk of providing the enemy with a better weapon.

For instance, to raise anything a discredited liar like LeVay says to the level of an argument to reply to is disqualifying enough, but what about the whole "genetic" argument? Who cares if there is a "gay" gene or not! Homosexual acts would still be an abomination before God and (thus) the triumph of irrationality and a violation of human dignity. Just like alcohol addiction: it is wrong to get drunk and from the standpoint of the objective nature of the act, it doesn't matter if it is said to have a genetic component to it.

By and large, errors about the creation of man and of original sin are the starting point or at least a pillar of all errors. Nowaday's pastoral style has also another problem: that of believing that there are ways around the truth to make those we want to convert feel less "judged" and to make the enemies of the Church like us and say nice things about us. As if telling someone that they have a cold instead of diabetes will help the recovery of the patient and add to the prestige of the doctor.

Once you blame responsibility for what you did on somebody else, there begins the childish moral blackmail of victimization and entitlement, as if God owed us a pass for our sins, because see, the devil made me do it, you dear God created the devil, so you are at fault dear God and I am the victim of this outrageous inequality of you being immortal and omnipotent and me being mortal and with a whole lot of rules to abide by. See how it works? Occupy Eden Now! :wink:

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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2011 06:48 
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Um, yeah, what Fabrizio said. :)

If Fabrizio and Jeff agree, is it THEN binding? :)

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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2011 07:05 
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Kardinal wrote:
Um, yeah, what Fabrizio said. :)

If Fabrizio and Jeff agree, is it THEN binding? :)


absolutely. Disagreeing with such a position would be a sin whose absolution is reserved to the Apostolic See, which can be contacted only...through Jeff and Fabrizio on COL Forum (don't bother looking it up on the Code of Canon Law guys, it is there but you all are too evil to see it) :twisted:

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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2011 21:39 
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pilgrim wrote:
absolutely. Disagreeing with such a position would be a sin whose absolution is reserved to the Apostolic See, which can be contacted only...through Jeff and Fabrizio on COL Forum (don't bother looking it up on the Code of Canon Law guys, it is there but you all are too evil to see it) :twisted:

Well, then, I am not disagreeing-- just asking for clarification. :)
(I can hear the lurkers gasping, "DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT! HOW STUPID CAN SHE BE?! :o )

So here goes...I am not sure I understand. The theological error was he said sin is caused by Satan? On one level that is true, isn't it? Satan lures us commit homosexual acts, premarital sex, drunkeness, etc. However, we have a choice about whom are to follow, and maybe the writer didn't go into that enough, thereby leaving room for misunderstanding. That is the error? What I suspected was in error was the science and hormone stuff. I don't know if that has been proven, but we are talking about the Church and the Faith so it doesn't matter really.

t seems that the furore was created by people who don't want homosexuality linked at all with evil. I understood the writer to be saying that because of the Fall that Satan is connected in some way with every evil. If this article had been about alcoholism, I wonder if anybody would have cared. Or, let's use another example, normal men have a tendency to commit adultery and it is with the help of God, and choosing the good and choosing God, that they remain faithful to one wife. (Is that the same logic?) And probably nobody would have cared.

This was in a diocesan newspaper, that is, a newspaper for Catholics, not in the local secular paper. Would it not have been better to print a correction rather than retract the column? I fear we are getting to the point where Christian and biblical teaching will only be tolerated if it comes straight from a priest at the pulpit. And then a few years after that, even that will not be tolerated.

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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2011 22:05 
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The writer has had to resign his position as policy adviser for marriage and family to the U.S. bishops' Subcommittee for the Promotion and Defense of Marriage. A bit over the top.

Adviser resigns following column linking same-sex attraction with devil

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PostPosted: 22 Jan 2012 19:53 
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The devil is not the only source of temptation. The flesh (ourselves) and the world is also another source.
I read somewhere that St Teresa of Avila said that even if the devil was not around we still have ourselves to fight against :)
I guess she meant our fallen nature.

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