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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2010 07:13 
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I say non-catholic, but the real issue is that he is anti-catholic. He's humoured me for some things - me taking Mary as my mother, for example - but he is dead set opposed to other things like the mass. It's making home a bit of a battlefield, though I don't engage with high-powered apologetics because I'm in the process of learning myself. Any advice out there for me?

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2010 07:38 
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I wrote out a whole post, but I think it's irrelevant. Are you already married to this person?

Is he dead set against you going to Mass or just to going with you?

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2010 07:51 
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Yes, already married and he's dead set against me going to mass. I'm not a catholic as yet.

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2010 11:40 
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What sort of anti-Catholic is he? Is he atheist/agnostic or is he some other religion?

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2010 12:16 
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Kay,
I'm guessing that your husband is a convinced Protestant as you described yourself to be earlier. If that is so, his ideas about a husband's authority may be similar to those of Catholicism. You should continue to respect his authority as much as possible. But if God is calling you to investigate becoming Catholic, you have to obey God before your husband.

In every other area, make a point to be more respectful and more considerate of your husband's wishes so that it is clear that your going to Mass is not part of a general attitude of rebelliousness. It is probably good to avoid arguing about religion. It is better (but harder) to show with your life that your changing beliefs are a good influence on you. If he asks you specific questions, tell him that you will find out. You can probably find answers here for him.

And pray a lot.

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010 01:12 
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Yes he's a convinced protestant - quite the fan of James White if that makes things clearer. It would almost be easier if he was an atehist because I'd see things more clearly. He's like a quiet protestant apologist.

I will do as you say and pray and be gentle about it all. The other fact is that I can't get to mass without his permission as I don't drive, so that makes things harder.

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010 05:19 
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That's a tough one, Kay :(
I too am married to a non-Catholic who isn't a Christian believer at all, which in some ways is easier, and I am blessed by the fact that he is happy for me to be as Catholic as I like! I found the main problem when I converted was with my Protestant friends, some of whom were very cruel and judgemental.

I think prayer is vital, and asking Our Blessed Mother to work on His heart. I have seen Mary soften other's hearts and draw them to the Church. I would ask St. Therese's intercession too (if you're happy to do so) as she was instrumental in bringing me into the faith, and is Patroness of the Missions.

Just hang in there, and let your life be an example to him. And if you can't make it to Mass, you can make a spiritual communion instead :)

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Act of Spiritual Communion

As I cannot this day enjoy the happiness of assisting at the holy Mysteries, O my God! I transport myself in spirit at the foot of Thine altar; I unite with the Church, which by the hands of the priest, offers Thee Thine adorable Son in the Holy Sacrifice; I offer myself with Him, by Him, and in His Name. I adore, I praise, and thank Thee, imploring Thy mercy, invoking Thine assistance, and presenting Thee the homage I owe Thee as my Creator, the love due to Thee as my Savior.

Apply to my soul, I beseech Thee, O merciful Jesus, Thine infinite merits; apply them also to those for whom I particularly wish to pray. I desire to communicate spiritually, that Thy Blood may purify, Thy Flesh strengthen, and Thy Spirit sanctify me. May I never forget that Thou, my divine Redeemer, hast died for me; may I die to all that is not Thee, that hereafter I may live eternally with Thee. Amen.

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010 06:17 
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KayHarker wrote:
Yes he's a convinced protestant - quite the fan of James White if that makes things clearer. It would almost be easier if he was an atehist because I'd see things more clearly. He's like a quiet protestant apologist.

I will do as you say and pray and be gentle about it all. The other fact is that I can't get to mass without his permission as I don't drive, so that makes things harder.


Kay, I am sorry you are in this position and will pray for your husband's heart to soften. I believe Jayne's advice is very sage. Regarding transportation to Mass, you might call the parish office and ask if there is anyone who could give you a ride to Mass. My kids' school parish has coordinated rides in the past.

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010 06:24 
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Would it be too confrontational, in an attempt to convince him peacefully to allow you to investigate the Catholic Church, to remind him of Acts 5:38-39? ("If this endeavor or this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself. But if it comes from God, you will not be able to destroy (it); you may even find yoursel(f) fighting against God.")

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010 08:52 
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Kay,
In another post you asked about devotional works. Might I take this opportunity to suggest you make friends with Elisabeth Leseur? - her journal is powerful, and her story is remarkable. The journal is available from Sophia Institute Press - The Diary of Elisabeth Leseur.

Leseur's husband, Felix, was an avid atheist. Her quiet influence so greatly touched him that, after her death when he discovered her spiritual journal, he returned to the Church and even became a Dominical priest.

She's a very good example and teacher.

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010 10:44 
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Laura, I don't think it was me asking about devotionals, but I'll gladly take your advice :)

Larry, I think it might be a bit too confrontational for now, but I'll ponder it.

Dean, I hadn't thought of that. It's a good plan.

Pia, thanks for the spiritual communion, I've not heard of it before now

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010 14:34 
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Kay, Oops! You're right - it was to another new person!

But I do recommend Elisabeth Leseur, all the same ;)

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"Since I cannot altogether live the life I would wish for, I must make my actual life better and more fruitful for God and for the souls who have been entrusted to me." Elisabeth Leseur, October 2, 1905


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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010 14:40 
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Have you applied for RICA, Kay?

Actually, I think that God has really given you a great opportunity here. Consider yourself to be a Christian back in the era of intense Roman persecution. Many of the martyrs weren't even converted back then, but we can be sure they made it to heaven.

I know, modern priests are very strange in their encouragements but I must tell you: Refrain from the Eucharist unless or until you're converted.
Receiving Holy Communion without meeting the prerequisites constitutes as a grave sin.

I like the Spiritual Communion that Pia has recommended to you, however, the 'official' version is this:
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An Act of Spiritual Communion
My Jesus, I believe that you are in the Blessed Sacrament. I love you above all things, and I long for you in my soul. Since I cannot now receive you sacramentally, come at least spiritually into my heart. As though you have already come, I embrace you and unite myself entirely to you; never permit me to be separated from you.

You'll find that a number of Catholic prayers have different variations, they're OK but try using the 'official' prayers. You can find some 'official' versions in various Church Documents.

Regarding your husband, apologetics don't work for the uninitiated. 'Hearing they hear not; see the vision, know and understand not.' You could try praying some Biblical prayers with him, like the Magnificat (Luke 1:46-55), for example.
I know (as I live in a family of 100% Muslims) that reconciling one's religion to one's family is a really tough thing, but there comes a time when you start thinking of it as a cross and happily embrace it. Generally, the rule is this: when he speaks all those things against your religion, just smile. If you engage in debate, he'll get aggressive, so just smile and it keeps things at peace. Think of Jesus when they hurled insults at Him all the way from the Sanhedrin trial to Calvary. The Sermon on the Mount should further help you.

The Rosary is the thing you can rely on. The Rosary is known for its ability to bring peace in turbulent homes, and for the conversion of even the most hardened of Anti-Catholics.

I suggest that you ask the Blessed Mother for Her intercession. Problem is, we have Patrons for almost everybody but no official Patron saint for conversions. However, the intercession of Saint Monica has often been invoked for situations like the one you are in. She was the woman who, for several long years, prayed constantly for the conversion of her family and she suffered many hard times due to her religion. She succeeded at last not by long debates, or by aggressive persuasions but ONLY by prayer. We call her son Augustine of Hippo, Doctor of the Church.
Here are some resources on her:
http://www.americancatholic.org/Feature ... px?id=1120
http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/monica.htm

Keeping peace at home is the key, remember, every once a while, being human, your temper betrays you, they'll link it to Roman Catholicism. Every once a while you do anything 'unCatholic,' they'll mock you for it. So be on your guard. It'll see, that they only pick on your religion when you're being human and whenever you're being a creature called to great saintliness, they'll call you good without ever recognising what brought about the good.
However, be assured, you husband, your friends, and everybody against your religious inclinations DO TAKE NOTICE of your good deeds and they DO KNOW what caused them. They just get too ashamed to tell it to you.

The Prayer of Saint Augustine (yeah, I've got a fascination with the entire family!) is something you should consider:
Quote:
Breathe in me O Holy Spirit, that my thoughts may all be holy;
Act in me O Holy Spirit that my works, too, may be holy;
Draw my heart O Holy Spirit, that I love but what is Holy;
Strengthen me O Holy Spirit, to defend all that is holy;
Guard me then, O Holy Spirit, that I always may be holy;


Saint Francis said:
Quote:
"Preach the Gospel Always, if necessary, use words!"

I can't stress it enough, you need to be a totally new person. If you're thinking, 'Yeah, like my husband/friends just heard about my faith 'bout yesterday!' then, the time to be holy is NOW. You know, it won't be dangerous even if you tell these folks you're gonna 'tune' your life into a more 'holy' living. They'll know what you mean.
...and, do ever be on the defensive. Anti-Catholics can tell exactly when a Catholic is being on the defensive. Try to appear indifferent, I know, the temptation is strong and the provocations ample, but never get into open debate or even discussion for now. When the time comes, the Holy Spirit will guide you.

There are plenty of resources on the internet that show how biblical/early Christian the Catholic Mass is. To name a few:
http://whydocatholicsdothat.com/catholic_mass
http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Bib ... _Texts.htm
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/catho ... l_text.htm
http://www.anawim.pair.com/CATHOLICS/CA ... 20MASS.htm
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/mass.htm

Having Mary, the Rosa Mystica (Mystical Rose), comes at a small price: you get the rose, but the thorns are still there. No wonder one of the Early Fathers rightly compared Her as a Rose among thorns. They'll tell you many things against Her, but you'll notice that if you can ever have a really life changing event, caused by a human, it would the humble acceptance of the humble Mary. I recommend that you use a prayer of consecration to Her.

You must preach by example of your life and the best model is Mary. (I say 'preach' because salvation can be really contagious!) Accept the Cross and come behind Jesus. Like Mary did on the Via Cricis. Jesus doesn't promise His true followers great statistical numbers or honours or worldly riches: instead, He prepares you for the worst, so in Him you may become the best. Not that I'm anti-Protestant, but frankly, Jesus doesn't exist outside the Church of Rome. Does Jesus visit most protestant Churches every morning and evening? He does in the Catholic Churches, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity.
This might help: http://www.jehannedarc.org/marks.html

Finally, this might help you on the way: http://www.jehannedarc.org/whycatholic.html

Remember, (and this is important), there are times when you really feel like some Martian Alien living amongst humans or vice-versa and you really feel alone. However, there are more than 16,000 canonised (not counting the non-Canonised) saints, Mary, innumerable Angels, your Guardian Angel, and the Trinuine God who are always with you. Plus, you've got more than ONE BILLION Catholics who, in one way or the other, pray for you.
That's a lot of people, isn't it?

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010 16:28 
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Quote:
Have you applied for RICA, Kay?


Quote:
I know, modern priests are very strange in their encouragements but I must tell you: Refrain from the Eucharist unless or until you're converted.
Receiving Holy Communion without meeting the prerequisites constitutes as a grave sin
.

Victor, she can't even get to Mass as she doesn't drive so I don't think she needs to worry about this. She's just here making some inquiries.

As for 'official' versions of 'Spiritual Communions' - I never heard of such a thing. Both versions are good.

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010 16:56 
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Victor,

The Act of Spiritual Communion you have posted is appropriate for someone who is present at Mass but unable to receive Holy Communion. The Act of Spiritual Communion posted by Pia is appropriate for someone who is unable to attend Mass.

Speaking of appropriate, I don't think "official" is quite the word when referring to private prayer.

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010 17:11 
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Christianus wrote:
Keeping peace at home is the key, remember, every once a while, being human, your temper betrays you, they'll link it to Roman Catholicism. Every once a while you do anything 'unCatholic,' they'll mock you for it. So be on your guard. It'll see, that they only pick on your religion when you're being human and whenever you're being a creature called to great saintliness, they'll call you good without ever recognising what brought about the good.


Being maltreated because of your faith is painful. It is easy to let it make you bitter. Yet in this persecution is an opportunity to grow in virtue!

Patience, kindness, love...all are things you can practice in this difficult situation. When it is most difficult to do the loving, kindly, good thing and you do it because you want to do it, then you grow in virtue.

I would suggest to Kay that when mocked, to take it with thankfulness because when it bothers you to be so disrespected this is an opportunity to unite with Christ who was mocked, and to grow in humility by realizing that what others think of you is of no account because the only opinion that matter's is God's.

And painful as it is, you need to seek the face of Jesus and pray silently as you go about your day.

The suggestion about calling the parish and asking about getting a ride is a good one. Is there a parish within walking distance? If you cannot go to mass, perhaps you could find EWTN on TV and pray along with the various prayers and experience the mass at a distance on there. While it will not serve as fulfilling a Mass obligation, it certainly can be edifying.

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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2010 04:28 
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Dove wrote:
Christianus wrote:
The suggestion about calling the parish and asking about getting a ride is a good one. Is there a parish within walking distance? If you cannot go to mass, perhaps you could find EWTN on TV and pray along with the various prayers and experience the mass at a distance on there. While it will not serve as fulfilling a Mass obligation, it certainly can be edifying.


The Holy Father decreed that since many people live in total persecution, the Mass obligation can be fulfilled via the internet. The Passionist Fathers were given this duty, their website is: http://www.themass.com/default1024.htm the link will lead to the Sunday mass.

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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2010 06:01 
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Seamas O Dalaigh wrote:
Speaking of appropriate, I don't think "official" is quite the word when referring to private prayer.


Not everyone who posts here has English as a first language.

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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2010 11:16 
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I've checked and I might be able to get to 5pm mass on Saturdays as the church is in the town centre and I can make my own way there by bus. I'm praying the rosary everyday as habit now, I guess the thing to do is to add this as an intention when I pray. Thanks everyone for all the advice, it's really uplifting to feel so 'heard' and helped.

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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2010 14:05 
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KayHarker wrote:
I've checked and I might be able to get to 5pm mass on Saturdays as the church is in the town centre and I can make my own way there by bus. I'm praying the rosary everyday as habit now, I guess the thing to do is to add this as an intention when I pray. Thanks everyone for all the advice, it's really uplifting to feel so 'heard' and helped.


Kay,
That would be good if you could get to Mass on your own. And the Rosary will be a big help to you.

Even though your husband is not supportive of this, avoid thinking of him as your "persecutor". He is not a bad guy. He loves you and is acting out of concern for you. He sincerely believes that you are not doing what God wants. Do not lose sight of your husband's goodness in the midst of this disagreement.

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2010 01:51 
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That's good to remember, Jayne. I know that for years I would be very upset by friends converting to the Catholic church because I genuinely believed their souls were at risk and I was very worried for them. I know his opposition is borne out of a real concern for me.

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2010 05:07 
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JayneK wrote:
Even though your husband is not supportive of this, avoid thinking of him as your "persecutor". He is not a bad guy. He loves you and is acting out of concern for you. He sincerely believes that you are not doing what God wants. Do not lose sight of your husband's goodness in the midst of this disagreement.

You know, that's the biggest irony in these situations. I have a Fundamentalist/Evangelical buddy, who can argue with me all the way from from Boston to Portland if we were to travel together but at the end of the day, he's still trying to 'rescue' me from hell!
That's why the Sermon on the Mount is SO encouraging in these situations. Or what Jesus commanded His disciples at the eve of His Passion.
The evening Mass is always the choice for new inquirers. And, of course, it fulfils quite what Malachi 1:11 says!
A great friend of mine advised me that the best time to talk to the priest regarding your interest is right after the mass when they're usually outside greeting the congregation. You needn't be 100% sure whether you want to come home to the Church, but the priest can usually help you decide honestly.
From my own experience, I think that you should sit straight and talk it out with your husband. I can tell you, 'hints and signs' just don't do the trick. It always hangs as a big sword tied to a thin cord on one's mind unless you let go and talk it out.

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2010 05:58 
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You can have him come to this site to ask questions as well. Many times non-Catholics just do not understand what Catholics "actually" believe.

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2010 09:16 
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A great friend of mine advised me that the best time to talk to the priest regarding your interest is right after the mass when they're usually outside greeting the congregation. You needn't be 100% sure whether you want to come home to the Church, but the priest can usually help you decide honestly.


Sorry but I have to disagree. It is best to make an appointment to speak with the pastor privately.


Quote:
From my own experience, I think that you should sit straight and talk it out with your husband. I can tell you, 'hints and signs' just don't do the trick. It always hangs as a big sword tied to a thin cord on one's mind unless you let go and talk it out.


Victor, no offense to you, but I am sure Kay knows her husband best and will figure out what works for them.

When I first came back to the Church I was VERY zealous and thought I could convert the whole world just by telling people about what the Church taught. It does NOT work that way. We must meet others where they are.

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2010 11:41 
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Mary-Love wrote:
Quote:
A great friend of mine advised me that the best time to talk to the priest regarding your interest is right after the mass when they're usually outside greeting the congregation. You needn't be 100% sure whether you want to come home to the Church, but the priest can usually help you decide honestly.


Sorry but I have to disagree. It is best to make an appointment to speak with the pastor privately.


Quote:
From my own experience, I think that you should sit straight and talk it out with your husband. I can tell you, 'hints and signs' just don't do the trick. It always hangs as a big sword tied to a thin cord on one's mind unless you let go and talk it out.


Victor, no offense to you, but I am sure Kay knows her husband best and will figure out what works for them.

When I first came back to the Church I was VERY zealous and thought I could convert the whole world just by telling people about what the Church taught. It does NOT work that way. We must meet others where they are.


Oh my God, I didn't know you're also a member of this forum. I really love your blog and I must say, IT'S WONDERFUL!
Thanks for the rebuke, I'll keep that in mind. Basically, some Parishes are a bit too 'deserted' and inquirers are often puzzled when they get there. Personally, I think that contacting any priest via email works wonders, at least it did for me.
The suggestion about talking things out was, again, based on my own experience and observation. It basically becomes a matter of conscience in time if the inquirer keeps dragging the talk.

Pax Christi

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2010 13:33 
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I really love your blog and I must say, IT'S WONDERFUL!


Thanks, Victor.

I do admire your excitement about the faith - but something else to take into consideration.... :wink: ....you see how committed you are to your faith? I think Kay's husband feels the same way about his. Baby steps....baby steps.... :)

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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2010 09:43 
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Well, I didn't get there as I had children to look after at the time. I don't think it was deliberate, but visiting the church was near-nigh impossible today. I shall try again next week.

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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2010 10:14 
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Kay, hard as it is to have our hopes thwarted, these disappointments are never in vain - they're the things real saints are made of. Keep your chin up - this is the sowing and cultivating season; the harvest will come.

Chin up!

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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2010 15:24 
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artnalex wrote:
You can have him come to this site to ask questions as well. Many times non-Catholics just do not understand what Catholics "actually" believe.


His Excellency, Archbishop Fulton J Sheen said, 'Not more than a hundred or so people hate the Catholic Church in the United States; but millions hate what they think is the Catholic Church.'

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Laudate Dominum omnes gentes conlaudate eum universi populi quia confortata est super nos misericordia eius et veritas Domini in aeternum alleluia

Victor Marcus Christianus
christianus.vm@googlemail.com


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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2010 06:31 
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Thanks Laura, that's helpful to remember as I am quite disappointed. I did get to spend some time in an Anglican cathedral earlier in the day, but it felt like something was missing (and I think i know what it was!)

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Kay Harker


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