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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 06:16 
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A good catholic friend of mine married a woman who likes dressing sexy ie low cut,see thro blouses.miniskirts in public places and very tight jeans

I wonder whether this sort of attitude is permissible for catholics.

We indians tend to ape the west in bad things too.I don't mind being labled "backward" or "uncivilised" because I feel that this attitude is basically not catholic.
I personally consider it a sin when my eyes and mind are fired by lust ,and don't like such people at close quarters .

Their argument offered is that"everybody does it".
Am I being "dogmatic" or "fanatic"?

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V Question: If one of the spouses gives permission to the other to practise adultery does not that remove the injustice?

VI Answer: In that case, such an action remains objectively a grave offence against the divine precepts which man can not change: a sin against chastity and an injustice towards the legitimate children. This is why Pope Innocent XI solemnly declared that, in spite of the consent of the faithful spouse, such an action was always adultery (Decree of the Sacred Office of the 2nd March, 1679; Proposition 50; Ds 2150).

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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 09:31 
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JMJ

Simon,

you are not being backward. Only Catholic:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P8R.HTM
Quote:
II. The Battle for Purity

2520 Baptism confers on its recipient the grace of purification from all sins. But the baptized must continue to struggle against concupiscence of the flesh and disordered desires. With God's grace he will prevail
- by the virtue and gift of chastity, for chastity lets us love with upright and undivided heart;
- by purity of intention which consists in seeking the true end of man: with simplicity of vision, the baptized person seeks to find and to fulfill God's will in everything;312
- by purity of vision, external and internal; by discipline of feelings and imagination; by refusing all complicity in impure thoughts that incline us to turn aside from the path of God's commandments: "Appearance arouses yearning in fools";313
- by prayer:

    I thought that continence arose from one's own powers, which I did not recognize in myself. I was foolish enough not to know . . . that no one can be continent unless you grant it. For you would surely have granted it if my inner groaning had reached your ears and I with firm faith had cast my cares on you.314

2521 Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.

2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one's choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

2523 There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body. It protests, for example, against the voyeuristic explorations of the human body in certain advertisements, or against the solicitations of certain media that go too far in the exhibition of intimate things. Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.

2525 Christian purity requires a purification of the social climate. It requires of the communications media that their presentations show concern for respect and restraint. Purity of heart brings freedom from widespread eroticism and avoids entertainment inclined to voyeurism and illusion.

2526 So called moral permissiveness rests on an erroneous conception of human freedom; the necessary precondition for the development of true freedom is to let oneself be educated in the moral law. Those in charge of education can reasonably be expected to give young people instruction respectful of the truth, the qualities of the heart, and the moral and spiritual dignity of man.

2527 "The Good News of Christ continually renews the life and culture of fallen man; it combats and removes the error and evil which flow from the ever-present attraction of sin. It never ceases to purify and elevate the morality of peoples. It takes the spiritual qualities and endowments of every age and nation, and with supernatural riches it causes them to blossom, as it were, from within; it fortifies, completes, and restores them in Christ."315

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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 09:46 
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Can a woman wear a bikini at the beach?

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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 09:55 
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Ducati67 wrote:
Can a woman wear a bikini at the beach?

Only if she is alone! :wink:

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I will consider your position if stated with firm, well-thought-out, quiet reasoning. Hateful diatribe, ad hominem attacks and shouted rhetoric don't impress.

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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 12:32 
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Phil,

Maybe something like this is more appropriate???


Image

Okay, so that's a little extreme, but I will quite happily swim in a dress. I did lifesaving courses back when I was a kid, so swimming in clothes is fine for me. Failing that, in the local pools, London's high Muslim population means there's women's only time, so I can wear a decent one-piece costume.

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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 19:17 
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Julie R wrote:
Maybe something like this is more appropriate???

Julie,
My bathing suit looks like that except mine does not have a head covering. Also my legs are only covered to mid-calf rather than full-length like the picture. I haven't seen this sort of thing available in stores, but people sell them online.

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"To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbour's thoughts, words and deeds in a favourable way." CCC 2478


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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 19:26 
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Here is the website that shows my bathing suit (I have the extended one): http://www.wholesomewear.com/slimmer-c.html

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"To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbour's thoughts, words and deeds in a favourable way." CCC 2478


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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 21:10 
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Quote:
Can a woman wear a bikini at the beach?


Yes of course provided all others on the beach are of the same way.
Some beaches in Goa India have mainly European tourists on vacation ,specially during winter.
It is acceptable to allow themselves to enjoy the sunshine,beaches and good sea food in whatever way they want.
Live and let live
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stefworldtour/94112992/
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/pb/ ... e/?o=0&i=1

http://citypaper.net/blogs/clog/author/michaelryan/



Quote:
Goa, The Hard Way
Tuesday, October 23rd, 2007 at 10:09 am
posted by Michael Ryan

Photo | Michael Ryan


Travel is cheap and easy here in Goa. In Palolem, the Indian version of “laid back” is sublime. I am in my shack on a remarkably active beach, with cows and dogs, travelers, fisherman and sales people mingling in the surf. Despite this activity, there is never a shout or angry word, or anything even approaching a bad vibe. Everyone is smiling as if they’ve just found paradise. Here, life is swim and tan, eat and drink, smoke and dance. A beach shack is 300 Rupees ($7.50) and a scooter is Rs.200 ($5) per day. With meals and kayak rentals, I’m topping out at 20 bucks a day. Why on earth would anyone ever leave?

The locals here still have genuine smiles for travelers, despite the disparity in work, pleasure and spending money. For the Goans, a white face is an opportunity for additional income. Every Tamil, Deepak and Hari has his own racket, including boat trips, scooter rentals, ayurvedic massage and handmade goods for sale. These services are on top of an already thriving formal economy of beach shacks, tiki bars, clothing and souvenir shops, internet cafes and travel agencies. In Palolem, everything a beach bum could possibly need is within a few hundred yards. But finally, after 15 days on the beach, I am ready to hit the road.

Backpackers with Lonely Planets run into each other in different places, again and again. We recognize each other, sit down for dinner and carry the conversation from where we left off last time. Sometimes, when you run into someone you didn’t quite like, it takes a delicate white lie to throw them off course. Other times, you run into people you enjoy a great deal, and if the schedules permit, get to spend a few days or more with them.

Toward the end of my 10 days in Anjuna, I ran into two Australian girls, very fun to hang out with in Anjuna for a few days, and then decided to join them for a 3-hour taxi-share to Palolem. On the way, we picked up a third Australian girl, who grew up in South Africa, and with whom I was immediately smitten. Like, “holy shit” smitten. Once in Palolem, we kept running into people we’d met in Anjuna. I am now heading toward Hampi, which also happens to be next on the itinerary of several travelers I’ve spoken to. After that, I’m heading to Mysore for yoga.

Kate, the third Australian we picked up in Baga, has just left us. I am very sad about this, more than I should be, since we met a few days ago. Then again, I’m a guy and unusually fickle. It’s a double-edged sword, to meet such a remarkable, articulate and refined woman while traveling, but to know that we’ll end up on opposite sides of the planet. She is going home to Perth, to begin a residency. I am heading off to continue my tour of India. We’re stuck in a travelers’ fantasy. As she prepared to leave, I was searching for ways to.. oh, I don’t know.. move to Australia? Finally, we said our good-byes. I wish you all the best, Kate!

As the Australians put it, “it’s really very lovely, here… isn’t it?” Last night I found myself in a group of only native English speakers. We were Australian, English, American and South African. We talked about our countries, how other countries are perceived back home, and linguistics. It was a startling realization for me, that so few nations around the globe can claim English as their primary language, yet the language dominates trade and information worldwide. I knew this already, but here I was, speaking with representatives from the 4 largest English speaking nations, on a beach in India! It suddenly occurred to me that we are really a minority on earth; extremely privileged; and that by talking to each other, we might actually be changing our own languages and accents, ever so slightly, back home. We dubbed it the new “Globo-Anglo.”

If the news back home has any of you stressed, the healing qualities of beach life are still working, and easier to obtain for extended periods than you may realize. There is something hypnotic about laziness near the waves. My big stress for the day is a run to a neighboring town, to use the only ATM near Palolem. After that, I’m renting a sea kayak with James, the Englishman from our group discussion. Last night I enjoyed a traditional Goan dish of chicken “chilly stir fry,” with a few “Kings” beers. It’s like a spicier version of pepper-steak, and satisfying over a bed of plain white rice. Tonight, I am going to try the more famous Goan “fish curry.” I hear it’s amazing.

I’m leaving the beach tomorrow. I’m heading to Hampi for a few nights, about nine hours east from here in the state of Karnataka, then onward farther south to Mysore, Ooty and Pondicherry in Tamil Nadu. Along the way, I will be looking for yoga schools, so I can learn a new discipline, lose a little more weight, breathe a little more deeply (Pranayama) and see as much of India as I possibly can. If all goes well, I will also get to see Kholkat (Calcutta) and Rajasthan, and maybe even squeeze in another week on the beach before heading home in late December. Gotta go now… I can smell that fish curry. Thank you for reading.

If you would like to write, please know that your comments are always welcome. You can reach me directly at mikerphilly@mac.com.

Philadelphian Michael Ryan is reporting from India. He started the semester in the Temple University Fox School of Business� International MBA Program.



The church in Goa has a say in the conduct of tourism
http://www.fosam.org/index.php
Quote:
Civic Responsibilities


Shall be a good neighbor by applying the highest standards of integrity, fairness and ethical conduct in the surrounding neighborhood and participate actively in community fora to address broader social problems.
Shall treat all visitors with honesty and courtesy even if they are not staying at our guesthouses and hotels, and make sure that they are aware of the local customs and laws.
Shall provide decent employment and make provisions for our staff during the off season period.

Protection of Human Dignity



Shall not display tolerance of any activity that violates the human dignity of anyone else, e.g. pedophilia, prostitution, sale and abuse of drugs, and human trafficking, either on our premises or in the surrounding community.
Shall not engage child workers.



It makes for very good fun to mingle with people from different cultures :) :)

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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009 22:38 
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Quote:
Modesty protects the intimate center of the person

How ?Conversely is immodestly a gateway for other sins?

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2009 00:36 
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A few years ago I went to a resort in Punta Cana DR. The beach had many topless women mostly who were from parts of Europe. They saw nothing wrong with this. It can be difficult trying not to notice something which is fairly noticeable because in the States this type of behavior would not be common. Yet, I cannot believe that all who participated in this were wicked. In fact, it seemed quite acceptable to them as a "natural" thing. Afrikans have traditions and customs which are different from ours too. Of course dressing provocatively at mass can be distracting to many. Nowadays many young women dress provocatively and they have to run everywhere! So, is the culture changing? Aside from using common sense based on a history of prudence in dress, who's right?

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2009 05:07 
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Quote:
So, is the culture changing? Aside from using common sense based on a history of prudence in dress, who's right?

In my part of the world the culture has definitely changed in the past 40 years.
I would say that old fashioned modesty wins
1) Women themselves felt safer than they do today
2)There is a steep rise in aids ,abortions and drug abuse among local youth in areas close to beaches
3) Perverts from other indian states like karnataka ,andhra pradesh and maharashtra flock to ogle at european women ,not understanding the need europeans have for sunbathing and the sea.Indian women and even men are not good swimmers.We had a British woman recently to train locals on life saving techniques
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/unc ... 17190.html
4)There is also a rise in breakup of marriages -if this is related i don't really know

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2009 11:24 
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If I'm not mistaken in the past beaches were set up so that men and women were separated by some distance.

At our co-ed leadership camp for teens both guys and gals have to wear a dark t-shirt when swimming. Since it's mostly splashing around, water slides etc the clothes don't weigh anyone down. If we were doing laps or distance swimming we would dispense with the t-shirts in the water, but not out of it.

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2009 11:29 
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While I will concede that what passes as 'modest' depends to a certain extent on society, nevertheless...

Certainly, in our climate, there is something to be said for common sense. I see young girls and women walking around in exceptionally immodest clothing while it's winter and pouring with rain. To be honest, I'm not thinking 'Oh my word you brazen......!' I'm thinking 'I bet she's freezing cold'.

A lot of this has to do with the sexualisation of women since the sixties (in particular). It is related to the increase of eating disorders and depression amongst teens and young women. It is linked to the perception girls have that you need a boyfriend in order to be 'worth something', that you need to 'date' (we don't say that in the UK ;-) ), all of which leads to sexual activity because, since the advent of the pill, there is no longer the 'risk' of pregnancy (as if being pregnant were a disease) or, even if, there is the 'option' of abortion... and birth out of wedlock is, at any rate, considered 'normal' now.

Modest dress, which doesn't have to be frumpy and doesn't have to preclude jeans, t-shirts etc., protects young women from this. Dressing in a feminine but non-sexualised way boosts self-esteem and even protects from the sort of prevailing vanity because clothes designed for women don't emphasise all the 'flaws' in a normal figure. It doesn't mean men won't be attracted, but it means that the men who do ask a girl out will be of a (sorry...) better class than the guys who go for the girl who looks cheap. It also protects men from committing certain sins, even in thought, by removing some of the temptation.

The problem is that a lot of people think 'modest' has to mean 'old-fashioned' or 'frumpy'.

****

That said, what is acceptable at the beach or in a pool is not the same as what is acceptable in the office or at Mass. We all know that.

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2009 13:04 
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JayneK wrote:
Here is the website that shows my bathing suit (I have the extended one): http://www.wholesomewear.com/slimmer-c.html


That kind of suit looks like it would be hard to do laps in, as would a bikini. I wear a TYR swim team style suit. Mine has a higher neck and the back is covered quite a bit.

I think bikinis are in poor taste, regardless of the body shape. I have an overweight neighbor who's near 60 who wears a bikini, it looks ridiculous. It exposes too much skin and increases therisk of malignant melanoma.

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2009 13:33 
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NurseNell wrote:
That kind of suit looks like it would be hard to do laps in, as would a bikini.

Nell,
It isn't bad for exercise laps but I wouldn't want to race in it.

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2009 07:42 
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I'm intrigued by the phrase "husband gives permission ...". My husband doesn't own me any more than I own him and he doesn't "give permission" for anything. I'm fortunate, I suppose, in that we regard each other as free people who have freely chosen to be together and we have a very pleasant life together (except when he treads mud all over my nice clean kitchen floor as he did this morning - Rose glares in direction of DH's study :tsk: ). What did someone post on another thread about not telling the sins of others? LOL.

I hope very much that I would never do anything to lower my husband's reputation, or mine for that matter, and vice-versa.

I dress to please him and to please myself. Fortunately, I was brought up to dress in a modest, ladylike way. Many people would probably considered me "very covered up". Day wear - mostly suits and dresses. Evening wear consists of dresses or a velvet/taffeta skirt and a shirt. I even garden in a skirt, but trousers are the only practical garment for climbing mountains. See-through materials - some of my garments are made of chiffon, lace or georgette, but have a substantial lining material so, no, you can't "see through" them. Swimming clothes - I wear a proper bathing suit. I prefer women-only swimming sessions at places that are open to the public. Low-cut and mini-skirts, sleeveless dresses - I have a pretty good figure for a lady my age, but at my age and after a few children I don't really have the figure for revealing clothes.

My husband also prefers to dress conservatively, and we have brought up our children to do the same.

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2009 11:40 
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NurseNell wrote:
. . .

I think bikinis are in poor taste, regardless of the body shape. I have an overweight neighbor who's near 60 who wears a bikini, it looks ridiculous. It exposes too much skin and increases therisk of malignant melanoma.
I am reminded of a comment by Mother Angelica. One day in a mall with some of her sisters she encountered and 80 year old woman wearing a mini-skirt. She commented, "I don't know what she expects to happen. ---- But I'll bet it doesn't." :)

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2009 11:47 
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Joe,

Was this before the dawning of the age of Viagra?

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