Catholic Online Forum

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David H.

That seems like kind of a strange statement. If you take it literally (and how else could you take it), it means either that 100% of babies born in Europe were conceived by artificial means, or that there are no children born in Europe at all.

Well, perhaps he didn't mean it.

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David L (CA)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

I am giving the news agencies the benefit of the doubt in assuming that they translated Mr. Djerassi's comments correctly into English from Germain (out of "the Austrian newspaper Der Standard). I am further assuming that the news agencies intended sense #2 of "sexuality" and neither sense 4. or 5. of "sex" as given by the American Heritage Dictionary.

From the rest of the cited Catholic News Agency article:


Perhaps we should also nit pick that alleged statement of Cardinal Schonborn (I believe one of the main if not the main author of CCC) since the correct number is 2.1 and not 3.0 ? Of course, it is rather hard for a couple to have 2.1 children.

I admit that I have not read Humanae Vitae. If you want to nit pick something more challenging, though, I'd suggest that you take on Humanae Vitae [sp?] as a challenge.

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David H.

Now that my ire is aroused, I would like to make a couple more outrageous assertions for readers debunk:

1. the pill was a kind of precursor or forerunner (same thing I figure) of virtual reality games since it enabled people to live, work, and play in a dream world

2. the pill was a strong enabler of the ethos of gay sex and gay marriage as normal and righteous, etc. , esp. for those idiots who claim/claimed that sexual repression is the main cause of mental illness.

P.S. before replying, and possibly wasting your time, please be aware that I will likely not answer back.

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David H.

David H,

I admit that I am relying on memory, I have to when it comes to things sexual .

However the debate on the use of the birth control pill. back in the days when it was under discussion as a result of Vatican 2, was that it could be used to control the female reproductive
cycle. The use of the thermometer was not as advanced as it is today. The same could be said for many other scientific advances.These days I am concerned that the extra estrogen that the pill gave to women, is a cause of many males born after women stopped taking the pill, being "gay". I have no scientific evidence to back up this statement, but I think it is possible

Peter

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"Lord to whom shall I go? Thou hast the words of eternal life"

JMJ



Peter,

I am not sure I understand this so I apologize in advance in case I'm totally offbase, but I don't think the pill was being discussed "as a result of Vatican II". It was being discussed because it had been just invented and it posed problems which needed a response from the Church. The immediate, definitive and exhaustive response - confirmed by all Popes after Paul VI, based on top-notch science and the help of the Holy Spirit - was that it was another dangerous violation of human dignity and the meaning of sexuality a willed by God and understandable with the good-willed use of reason, enlightened by faith or not. Facts proved the response of the Church right as usual.

Also, I am pretty sure it was never said by the Church that the pill could be used in any way to control the "reproductive cycle", much less because of the scarce effectiveness of other methods of control. What is intrinsically wrong cannot be made right by circumstances. Other medical use of extrogens are also disputable, but that's another issue.

As to the pill inducing homosexuality I have no idea, neve heard of it. It would be another reason to oppose chemical contraceptives and qualify homosexuality as a disease, but I don't know of any evidence for such side-effects.

Again, I apologize if I have in any way missed what you meant to say.

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FabrizioParty like it's 1773

No one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist (Pius XI)

I too know nothing about this hypothesis.

My comment about the pill encouraging gay sex merely hypothesizes that the sexual licentiousness of widespread premarital and extra marital sex encouraged by the lack of fear of pregnancy with contraception contributed to the societal attitude that premarital and extra marital sex was merely a form of entertainment that one might as well enjoy and experiment with all forms of it for maximum satisfaction. Once people begin to think that way, there would be much less inhibition for a person to experiment with ANY form of sexuality and perhaps even some people who have little or no inborn tendency to homosexuality could get emotionally hooked by it. The common word for such a process is called "seduction" which is as old as the hills and people do it to each other all the time and not just in the area of sexual transgressions.

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David H.

I'm quoting you, David H............


Removing the "gay" part of this quote, I find this brilliant in terms of heterosexual behavior! Once this form of contraception was introduced, it opened up a free for all!
Not only did it have the effect of decreasing the population, but it left singles or married couples free to entertain themselves with no worry to the max!
In essence, it has led to the complete moral decline of our world.
Had the "pill" not been introduced, we may have had many more people in this world, yet many would've chosen to abort.
It is a viscious circle. It also reinforces my feelings against contraception in any form, as all it, contraception has done is lead us to....." sexual licentiousness of widespread premarital and extra marital sex".

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http://www.frontlineconservatives.com

If God leads you to it...He will lead you through it!
Linda Marie Ann

I think it should be pointed out the if I have said anything correct in this thread, then it is NOT original and almost certainly has been said before in the Bible or by the Church. It's just that I was too lazy to look up appropriate quotes. Sorry.

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David H.

I am not an anthropologist or archeologist, so I post this thought with no credentials.

But I wonder whether maybe the ancient prehistoric pagans were closer to the truth than is much of modern society?

Why?

Because the fertility godesses excavated from ancient prehistoric digs show images of fat pregnant women, not skinny runway models or playboy playmates.

At least they apparently might have understood part of "honor thy father and thy mother"?

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David H.

[/quote]

Actually, since the reproductive rates of most European ethnic groups has dropped below replacement it is indeed true that they are committing ethnic suicide.

Luckily, others in the human race, clearly superior in their normalcy are dedicated to having enough children to continue their ethnic groupings and so they will inherit the world as the other ethnic groups kill themselves off with birth control and abortion.

I find it slightly depressing to belong to one of the ethnic groups which is committing genetic suicide by failing to even attain replacement.

just wanted to add my $.02 worth.

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K. Ann Seeton

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle (but the concept is found in John Paul II's books The Acting Person and Love and Responsibility as well.)

Quicksilver to Gold
http://hg2au.com

To the best of my memory it was Dr Rock's hope, in inventing the pill, that it would be accepted by the Church as a licit means to control the reproductive cycle. While it was never accepted by the official Church for that purpose, I suspect a number of "Spirit of VII" type theologians also had high hopes in that direction.

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- Joe Kelley

Death is only a shadow across the path to Heaven.