Catholic Online Forum

Please forgive me if this is in the wrong place to post this. I love the sacramental marriage. However, I have noticed that there is no support for single mothers who have been in an abusive marriage. If anyone knows of spiritual support for a family in that situation, please let me know? Or counseling?

I find it very surprising how there is not such spiritual support for divorce/annulment situations...especially for the sake of the children. I think of all the people who are ostracized by the church for divorce and I wonder why even if someone hated the parents for their divorce why do they not consider the children. The church has support for women who have gone through abortion which thy shall not kill is a commandment ... surely there is support for children or parents of divorce/annulment situations. St. Paul was understanding of the situation where one was not sanctified and another spouse was and basically he said to do what is best for the children if I understood correctly?

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Tiffany
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let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

Hello and welcome to Catholic Online Forum. This can be a great site for learning about Catholicism and strengthening your faith. We are like a big family. Of course we are not perfect but try to love and respect each other.

Yes there are people and programs to help you in your situation. Do not lose hope. You may want to read our rules and know that we stand by and are proud of our religion. We will defend it and hope to set a good example to others. I hope you will feel free to join in on our discussions. More than ever we Catholics need to stand together in our faith even though we are separated often by thousands of miles. We have some excellent moderators here who do a great job of guiding us and setting a great example too. So please feel welcome and ask away!

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Pax et Bonum


Schultzz

There is support. How much and what kind may depend on where you live.

I would begin with Catholic Charities. In my diocese Catholic Charities has support groups - and even a safe house - for women, and children who have been in abusive situations. They may also be able to help you with counseling. If your local Catholic Charities can't help, they should be able to tell you who can. Any Catholic social service group should be a good source of information.

You could also try calling the family life office of your diocese. They would know if any parishes offer such programs.

I hope this helps,

Effie

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“The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.” –G.K Chesterton

"You may want to read our rules and know that we stand by and are proud of our religion. We will defend it and hope to set a good example to others." ... you say this like I do not know, love our faith and I am not Catholic. That is the kind of lack of support that I am referring to... that anti-Christian Christian attitude.

My divorce/annulment is for completely valid reasons and I have been affirmed by God from the get go. I recommend that anyone who judges someone going through a divorce/annulment take time to read the Bible more closely. Even Paul says that one spouse who is Christian may sanctify the other even if the other is not but basically if they are not then do what is best for the children...if I understood that passage correctly. Does anyone really believe that all the disciples in the early days who's spouses were not converted simultaneously went to hell for not having their spouse converted? No doubt this was an issue and why Paul said what he said. Again, I love and completely stand by the Sacramental marriage but call my marriage what you will but I know from personal experience that God affirmed me in leaving my spouse for completely unselfish reasons but purely for the sake of my children and still loves me and shows me answering of prayers and in miraculous ways.

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Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

IlovebeingCatholic, Thank you. I am in the Dallas area. I will call the Dallas Charities.

God bless you for your advice.

I understand that in this day and age many people might fear that supporting people like me might be bad... like maybe that would incourage the problem of divorce but I think that it is the lack of teaching (specifically regarding bringing God into one's marriage) and support that only leads to the lack of faith in divorced couples who are pushed away by Christians and then their kids fall from the faith as well which leads to more divorce : (

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Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

I was not directing the words to you specifically but more as in general for there are many who visit our site who lurk for whatever reason. I wasn't sure if you were Catholic when I wrote that but realized afterwards that you has said you were. Times have changed regarding Catholic people's thinking regarding divorce and annulment from an abusive marriage. I know that the abuse was not your fault or your responsibility. Please accept my apology if I have offended you. I only meant to welcome you to our family.

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Pax et Bonum


Schultzz

Moderator's Comment

Vincaster,

I want to make a couple of quick and hopefully gentle points.

Forum Rules require you to sign your posts with a "real" name, not your USERID. We do this for several reason the most prevalent is that it provides for politer Forum, it reminds us that we are conversing with a real person.

We also try to address persons by their signature name not their USRID, so "I Love being Catholic" the name there at the bottom of her post is "Effie".

She has given you good advice, Catholic Charities will be able to either help you directly or refer you to some organization that can.

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Bob C

In reply to Moderator's Comment...
Because of the personal nature I wanted to be as private as possible. I don't think anyone doubted that I am a real person. But, now you know that my name is Tiffany if that helps you to believe that I am real.

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Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

I am sorry if I came across too abruptly in my response. I very much appreciate and accept your apology. God bless you for your welcoming.

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Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

Moderator's Comment:

Tiffanny,

You may present yourself as a different person's name, if you like. We don't require your true name for exactly the reason of privacy. There are quite a few posters here who do not use their real names. However, we do not address each other by our handles either, and we sign our posts with some human name. It helps to maintain respect and helps us address our posts to each other when we are known by a name, and when we sign our posts.

Regards,

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Dean
Most people's sense of history goes back to breakfast time - Benjamin Netanyahu

Tiffany, no one doubted you were real, and my name is BobC....not Moderator.

If you had read the rules you would have seen that a pseudonym was fine, we realize that some folks do not wish to reveal their real names and that is okay, but we also do not wish to converse with someone calling themselves Doorknob 353.

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Bob C

Though I have frequently been accused by family, friends and acquaintances of being as dumb as a doorknob!

To get back to the topic . . . and if it has already been mentioned above, see the preceding sentence:

Have you talked to your priest about possible support references. Tiffany?

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In Christ,

Jim B

I will consider your position if stated with firm, well-thought-out, quiet reasoning. Hateful diatribe, ad hominem attacks and shouted rhetoric don't impress.

I am sorry yall dont like to call me by my handle : ( There are plenty of people named star something or named after a flower.

Yes, I did talk to my priest about a support group. During the divorce (when support is such a need) I was referred to grief support. However, I had already grieved the realization of the loss and was trying to grow after the trauma endured. Later, I was referred to a summer seminar but it was not spiritually or Bible based and was a temporary class. I talked to my priest about starting one in our parish if there is nothing and he was not receptive. Someone recommended Christ Renews his Parish and I loved it but I am so bogged down with the ongoing abusive situation, court hearings, kids, work that I feel like I am missing a lot and perhaps even holding the other ladies back. I always seem to be one step behind on what I am suppose to be doing in there. It feels like there is this synergistic spiritual body being formed and I am not contributing like I am suppose to or my situation is distracting the focus and I want to be there to uplift everyone and be part of that synergy. It is a great support group but unfortunate timing.

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Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

Tiffany,



The Catholic Church does not ostracise those who are divorced. People who have divorced and then remarried may not receive Holy Communion.



The Pauline privilege concerns two pagans married to each other when one converts to Catholicism.

The Petrine privilege concerns a baptised Christian married to a pagan.

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

Our parish has a singles Bible study, many of the people in it are divorced, all are well out of their 20's. You might ask to begin a simple study. Ours used very basic, simple books, nothing deep, and we read the chapters and discussed the questions, talked about what was going on in our lives and then after we'd often meet over at a nearby burger joint (cheap) and chat some more. It was very much a place for the wounded to be supportive of each other.

It was begun because there wasn't much for the people too young for the Age Managers, not inclined to Lay Carmelites or Knight of Columbus, or young enough to get much out of the young singles group.

Ours had six or so regulars and a couple of people who showed up occasionally.

Maybe you could start something social around a simple Bible study?

_________________
K. Ann Seeton

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle (but the concept is found in John Paul II's books The Acting Person and Love and Responsibility as well.)

Quicksilver to Gold
http://hg2au.com

The person that counseled you, diagnosed your abusive situation, and provided guidance may be able to steer you in the right direction.

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

I have seen these 'deceased marriage' grief support groups -even for children. I wish [they] pastoral ministers would term these groups as something else -maybe dead or unhealthy relationship support groups AND not only address the dangers and problems requiring separation of the spouses but as well the solutions and methods that could lead to reconciliation of the spouses. Grief implies quite a finality. The Church teaches that legitimate marriages do not die. A marriage is either legitimate or it is not.

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Daniel

"Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division." -- Luke 12:51

Hi Tiffany,



Have you ever asked the leaders of the group if your situation is distracting the group? If not, you should. You may find that your situation is not creating problems that you are worried about. I'd hate to see you drop out of something helpful based on an assumption. On the other hand, if they agree that your presence is a distraction, they may be able to help you find an alternative that would be helpful for you.



Perhaps some of it has to do with not understanding the challenges you are facing. It's hard to know how to support someone - or even if they need support - unless you have walked in similar shoes.

I have another suggestion. If you are not doing so already, spend time in church in front of the Blessed Sacrament. Ask Jesus to help you find what He knows you need.

Effie

_________________
“The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.” –G.K Chesterton

Divorced...without annulment cannot remarry and receive communion, right? I also believe that God is very favorable of families.

Pauline privilege is interesting although I am not sure that is from the same passage. The passage from Paul that I am referring to did not specify baptism. If one is baptized but does not believe then are they not still a pagan?

_________________
Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

Yes, my Christian counselor was very good but $130 a session is a lot! Another counselor also recommended finding a support group. Also, it turns out that someone can subpoena those records for court...fyi. Which is really unfortunate because it makes you less willing to disclose very private details that you do not want to be in a stranger or public hands. Thank you though.

_________________
Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

Tiffany,

A divorced person may continue to receive Holy Communion. Divorce is not a sin. Divorce simply does not exist.

A divorced person who "remarries" is excluded, by their own action, from Holy Communion. Adultery is a mortal sin.

There are three conditions for receiving Holy Communion worthily:

*You must be in a state of grace (ie not in a state of mortal sin);
*You must have the right intention (that of pleasing God);
*You must have fasted for at least one hour.

A baptised person can never become "unbaptised". Baptism is a one-off and lasts forever.

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

Tiffany,



Eeek! That is a lot. Priests are free.

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James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

I only refer to divorce in a legal sense. Thus, I use divorce/annulment together to satisfy the legal/religious terms. Just like marriage exists even if it is not a sacramental marriage people get married by common law all the time. I realize that God does not recognize those marriage to be valid but from a legal standpoint...they are married. So, religiously speaking if my ex was atheist when our vows were convalidated by the Catholic church, then we were never truly married...which brings up an interesting question about baptism. If someone has their child baptized to satisfy a grandparent but does not believe, is it a valid baptism?

My question regarding baptism and belief was not answered. If someone is baptized and they do not believe in God or Jesus then are they a pagan?

_________________
Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

I tried to talk to my priest several times but have not gotten the help I needed. That is why I am on here. If there is a priest in the Dallas area that you could recommend, please let me know.

_________________
Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

Tiffany,

There are 208 priests in Dallas TX. I don't recall having met any of them, but I'm sure there must be many who'd be willing and able to help you.

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

Tiffany,



Not so. But you'd need to discuss it with a priest.



The validity of the baptism is not determined in that way. If the baptism was validly done, then it is a valid baptism. If the baptism was Catholic it is most certainly valid. Protestant baptisms vary - some are valid, some aren't.



A baptised person may, in later life, embrace some form of paganism, though that would be unusual - they usually become atheists. Either way they still remain a baptised person. That can never change.

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)

If the person baptizing the child intends what the Church intends, uses water, says the words properly, then the baptism is valid.

If the person baptized becomes pagan, they will still be baptized but apostate.

_________________
K. Ann Seeton

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle (but the concept is found in John Paul II's books The Acting Person and Love and Responsibility as well.)

Quicksilver to Gold
http://hg2au.com

Catholic Charities charges on a sliding scale for counseling. Call them.

_________________
Pax et Bonum


Schultzz

I note in Tiffany's question that she does NOT ask if a person is baptized and LATER falls away whether the person is validly baptized, although the context of the thread might indicate this is what was being asked. The question reads as if the subject of baptism did not believe in Christ at the time of his baptism. Therefore, just in case, it's worth mentioning that a person who is no longer an infant in Church law (at the competence level of a 7 year-old) cannot be baptized against his will.

Regarding a parent getting her child baptized to satisfy a grandparent while the parent does not believe...the faith of the parent does not affect validity or liceity. And only the parent's consent is needed for liceity. Although these days, the priest should determine whether there is founded hope that the child will be raised in the faith before he agrees to baptize the child. If there is a grandparent willing to take on this responsibility and the parents are not going to hinder that process, a priest will likely go ahead with the baptism.

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Dean
Most people's sense of history goes back to breakfast time - Benjamin Netanyahu

Are you saying that you believe if a person deliberately lies in their vows and has no intention of even wanting to be married or being a Christian that is still truly a sacramental marriage?

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Tiffany
__________________________________
let us love one another.
For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments;
this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning,
in which you should walk.
2 Jn 4-9

We TREAT it as Sacramental until the Tribunal decides on a decree of nullity.

_________________
K. Ann Seeton

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle (but the concept is found in John Paul II's books The Acting Person and Love and Responsibility as well.)

Quicksilver to Gold
http://hg2au.com

Tiffany,

I'm saying I can't know what another person thinks, only what they say. As above, there is a presumption in favour of the sacramental validity of the marriage until it is established otherwise.

You really should discuss this with a priest.

_________________
James Daly

"It is the Lord." (Jn 21:7)